Comment

Comment by Cathy Baumbusch on September 30, 2011 at 12:44pm

The "Negotiator" (not his real name) doth protest too much, methinks...

,. the fact that you use Wikipedia as the source for your argument just makes me shake my head.

And no, I don't do "special things" to get more of my share of the compensation for the work that I do for my clients. Its exactly that type of "wink, wink" mentality that keeps our industry down. I notice how you didn't write the name of "huge national Real Estate firm" either.

Your credibility is suffering here.

The bottom line is that Fannie, et al have firmly established rules about what constitutes an Arm's Length Transaction and you choose to break them. Just because you have not yet gotten caught doesn't make it any less wrong.

I choose honesty and integrity over an additional 1% any day.

Comment by Thom Colby CA Brkr 888-391-5245 on September 30, 2011 at 11:44am

Directly from Lawyer.com

Fraud for Profit and Fraud for Housing

Mortgage fraud generally takes two forms: fraud for profit and fraud for housing.

Fraud for profit, also referred to as industry insider fraud, is fraud where the motive is to revolve equity, falsely inflate the value of the property or issue loans based on fictitious properties. Fraud for profit involves industry professionals and typically each case involves multiple loan transactions with several financial institutions involved. Since the perpetrators work in the mortgage industry, they understand how to exploit the system. The schemes can be complex and the losses very large.

Fraud for housing, also referred to as fraud for property, is fraud where a borrower perpetrates a fraud in order to acquire or maintain ownership of a house. This type of fraud is typified by a borrower who makes misrepresentations regarding his income or employment history to qualify for a loan. The borrower wants the property, intends to repay the loan, but makes misrepresentations in order to obtain the loan to buy the property. Sometimes industry professionals encourage the misrepresentation so that the professionals can earn compensation on the loan. Since fraud for property involves a homebuyer making misrepresentations in order to purchase a home in which to live and since typically the homebuyer fully intends to repay the loan and it is a one-time occurrence, the exposure to loss is not as great as cases involving fraud for profit.

Comment by The Negotiator on September 30, 2011 at 11:19am

Here is what mortgage fraud is :Mortgage fraud is crime in which the intent is to materially misrepresent or omit information on a mortgage loan application to obtain a loan or to obtain a larger loan than would have been obtained had the lender or borrower known the truth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_fraud)

Where does any of that talk about what goes on a listing agreement? If you can show me, then I stand corrected.

 

Look, on paper you don't put your name. If they ask you the direct question then you have to tell the truth. This is not fraud. Just like many of you who represent both the buyer and seller in a short sale do some "special" things to make sure you get the full 6% commission, since lenders chop a single agent down to 2-4%. Am I right? I know a huge national Real Estate firm that teaches how to do it. They wouldn't teach "fraud" would they? No!

 

I know you do it, too!  (No, not you... you!) :)

 

On the "fraud" side of things, it seems that people throw that word around like its not a big deal. But, guess what? IT IS A BIG DEAL! Just like screaming bomb in a public place, it gets everyone's attention and all of a sudden it's a topic of conversation. For example, the short sale flipping discussion. Because the word "fraud" got thrown in a short sale flip, now some think that every flip is fraud even though its a perfectly legal thing.

Comment by Jim Hale on September 30, 2011 at 10:27am

Shane -"Good thing I got my real estate license, so I can NOT purchase a deal when I find one."

 

You can buy a deal when you find one.  It just can't be your own listing - unless you disclose that you are the buyer, that you are a licensed broker AND THAT YOU THINK the listed price is "a deal".

At which point, for a regular listing, most sellers would promptly fire you AND refuse to sell to you.  Unless that was really what they wanted to do.

Short sale lenders are not always rational about the things they do.  But when they are talking about arm's length transaction, they are actually just acting like any sane seller would.

 

 

Comment by Jim Stewart on September 30, 2011 at 7:51am

Sorry "Negotiator" but Cathy and Mike are right. What your post proposes (at least the way it is written) is fraud.

Comment by Cathy Baumbusch on September 30, 2011 at 7:48am

Shane, if you got your license to buy and sell properties for yourself, you would do well to find out which banks require Arm's Length transactions (by the way, this is a HUD/FHA/VA, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, rule as well) before representing clients. If you are listing properties for the sole purpose of buying them yourself, then I would say you are not truly representing your seller clients.

As for you, "The Negotiator", (not his real name), it IS fraud to sign an affidavit of Arms Length and then turn around and buy it yourself- whether its through your LLC or not, its still you. By the way, Short Sale Fraud as defined by Fannie Mae:

Short Sale Fraud Characteristics
The perpetrator profits by concealing parties to the transaction and/or contingent transactions or falsifying material information including the true value of the property so the servicer cannot make an informed short sale decision. Educate yourself at https://www.efanniemae.com/utility/legal/pdf/fraudschchar.pdf.

Comment by The Negotiator on September 30, 2011 at 6:47am

"Mike Horton" - Please, look at the definition of "mortgage fraud" before you start accusing anyone, sir. The word "fraud" continues to be thrown around like its a commonality these days. However, it is the uneducated people in the industry who throw it around the most...

Comment by Mike Horton on September 30, 2011 at 6:03am

"The Negotiator" - Gee you would not be advocating mortgage fraud would you? I am sure that was just a slip of the pen.

Comment by Mary H. Morrill on September 30, 2011 at 4:07am

Negotiator, my experience has been that they always want the personal name of the listing agent as well as the brokerage firm, and every time we have had an LLC as a buyer, they have made us change the contract via an addendum.  The addendum has to state, "Betty Buyer, president of LLC."  So my experience has shown that there would be problems still.

Comment by The Negotiator on September 30, 2011 at 3:58am

Next time, don't put your personal name as the listing agent. Use only your brokerage firm name. Then, maybe, get an LLC if you didn't already to use as your buying entity.

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