Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bryant Tutas on October 1, 2010 at 12:48am

Keji. This sounds like it's the investor that is countering back. The first "acceptance" was nothing more than BofA getting the file ready to send to the investor. They are trying to submit a file that they feel will be accepted. In this case they were wrong. You can try to dispute the value by loading your comps into the system when you make the counter offer.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Payne on October 1, 2010 at 2:26am

Keji,
I agree with Bryant, the number that they gave you was the number that the negotiator thought would work for the investor and once it got to the investor, they had a different idea. Submit your comps to them, find out who the investor is and if you still get nowhere, contact the investor.
Ben Benita will probably hunt me down for this but I would have hit accept the first time without changing the commission back to 6% with the hope that it would have been accepted then and not take the chance of a counteroffer.

Permalink Reply by Cami Pinsak on October 1, 2010 at 8:16am

Yes - I had on go up from 380K to 410K... and I don't think that B of A is alone. All the banks are coming back with ridiculous values.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on October 2, 2010 at 8:53pm

From the gouging that I've seen from BofA negotiators, I do not believe this is the investor playing games. As you have seen, it is not good to ignore a negotiator when he calls - he is swamped and doesn't take that too kindly.

Push hard to have a discussion with him and ask him why the changes, why it jumped up, etc. You'll get more info and probably learn where lies are coming from. If he is any good, he should tell you exactly how much the investor needs to net. If he stonewalls, the odds are he is playing the games so can't tell you that you met the number long ago or whatever. That is important to know. Escalate until you find someone who will have a real conversation with you - what exactly do they need, what can you do, etc.

Arguing real world with them is pretty useless. They will pay attention to an appraisal. Anything less is simply lies from all you lying realtors trying to scam the bank. I think my BPO's might be 1 bad out out of 5 to 7 files, so I would like to think that they have the brains to know the same thing, but I wouldn't bet on it.

If I hadn't written so much about the subject, I'd throw in some pointers - you should be able to easily read them around here. Even **I** am getting tired of seeing all my words out here.. ;-}

They are becoming harder to deal with - between their seminars on how to become collection agents to grab as much $$ as possible and the investors cutting out postponements of sheriff sales, successful short sales are getting tougher. It becomes more important to decipher where the $ problem is coming from and tackle it head on. The pinhead negotiator? The investor? A **real** MI? BofA frequently lies about an MI being there and demandng cash and a note - part of the seminar thing.

You can be getting hit by any one of those.

Permalink Reply by Joan Psarros, CDPE, CRS, SFR on October 4, 2010 at 7:47am

I received a counter offer from another offer on a property today. They also want $5,000 from the seller and reduce the commission to 5%. So, let's think about this the comps do not justify it. They want $122k and there was a similar home within a half mile away, same s.f. , age, etc sold in September for $78k. It was a BOA foreclosure. My property has a converted garage with no permit and no appliances. That one had the appliances and no permitting issue. Oh well I guess they want another foreclosure. Oh, but they couldn't possibly as they are pulling back all their foreclosures as they just realized that no one was reading the files before they foreclosed. Maybe, someone should be reading the files on these shortsales that are good and they would definately net out a lot more than the foreclosures. Also, they have to maintain the properties once they foreclose. There must be something that I am missing. We had another offer on this property for $110k several months ago . It was a cash offer and they wanted the same amount then . They supposedly had a new appraisal which I was exicited about. Another day dazed and confused in real estate.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on October 4, 2010 at 10:52am

You keep thinking that real world numbers mean something to BofA - they do not. Many agents go on and on about what the bank is going to lose, etc. and they won't - they are only processors paid to collect money for their investor. And gov't investors don't care much because it is tax payer money and nobody holds them accountable so why should they hold BofA accountable?

You need to know the guidelines for the investor - if it is fannie mae, they will not lower the commission below 6% if the contract is for 6% or more.

Usually, sellers do a horrible job of getting their financials to be anywhere near accurate and some do a poor job on the hardship letter. Either or both can be a good reason for you being dinged for cash or a note from the seller. Make sure that they both make sense. Assuming that the seller is broke, ask the negotiator to explain how he thinks the seller has money to pay these things. Pin him down. He may see that the sell just bought a car by the credit report, the seller could have screwed up the numbers to make it look like he has an extra $2K every month, the credit report can show that he is paying off everyone else but this mortgage. All say "get money from him."

BofA does not care about your comps - they paid "their employee" to give them a BPO so they trust it no matter how bad it is. You either wait for a new one and hope it is better and, unlike many agents, you get your butt out there and point out what is wrong with the place - or pay these kind of consequences; or you get an APPRAISAL, the only thing which they may pay attention to - because it was done by someone legally responsible for getting the number right. Anything else does not matter to them.

There are a few other factors - sometimes the loss is so great, they factor that in. It makes no sense - like someone is going to pay 50% over market value for a BofA house than the nicer house next door, but sometimes they bump up numbers for silly reasons like that. You can get that info from the negotiator, too. Maybe you have, but you haven't said that you have gotten any reasonable explanation for anything they have done.

You can talk about the economy and foreclosures and not liking BofA - none of that is worth 10 seconds on the phone with them - they do not care - not their job, not their interest and does nothing to help your situation.

You either need to do something which has an effect on their judgment or just forget it and walk away.


Joan Psarros, CDPE, CRS, SFR said:

I received a counter offer from another offer on a property today. They also want $5,000 from the seller and reduce the commission to 5%. So, let's think about this the comps do not justify it. They want $122k and there was a similar home within a half mile away, same s.f. , age, etc sold in September for $78k. It was a BOA foreclosure. My property has a converted garage with no permit and no appliances. That one had the appliances and no permitting issue. Oh well I guess they want another foreclosure. Oh, but they couldn't possibly as they are pulling back all their foreclosures as they just realized that no one was reading the files before they foreclosed. Maybe, someone should be reading the files on these shortsales that are good and they would definately net out a lot more than the foreclosures. Also, they have to maintain the properties once they foreclose. There must be something that I am missing. We had another offer on this property for $110k several months ago . It was a cash offer and they wanted the same amount then . They supposedly had a new appraisal which I was exicited about. Another day dazed and confused in real estate.

Permalink Reply by Keji Ogunleye on October 5, 2010 at 6:06am

Joe is absolutely right...This is not BoA money and they could care less about how much they are going to lose at foreclosure...



joe beauchamp said:

You keep thinking that real world numbers mean something to BofA - they do not. Many agents go on and on about what the bank is going to lose, etc. and they won't - they are only processors paid to collect money for their investor. And gov't investors don't care much because it is tax payer money and nobody holds them accountable so why should they hold BofA accountable?

You need to know the guidelines for the investor - if it is fannie mae, they will not lower the commission below 6% if the contract is for 6% or more.

Usually, sellers do a horrible job of getting their financials to be anywhere near accurate and some do a poor job on the hardship letter. Either or both can be a good reason for you being dinged for cash or a note from the seller. Make sure that they both make sense. Assuming that the seller is broke, ask the negotiator to explain how he thinks the seller has money to pay these things. Pin him down. He may see that the sell just bought a car by the credit report, the seller could have screwed up the numbers to make it look like he has an extra $2K every month, the credit report can show that he is paying off everyone else but this mortgage. All say "get money from him."

BofA does not care about your comps - they paid "their employee" to give them a BPO so they trust it no matter how bad it is. You either wait for a new one and hope it is better and, unlike many agents, you get your butt out there and point out what is wrong with the place - or pay these kind of consequences; or you get an APPRAISAL, the only thing which they may pay attention to - because it was done by someone legally responsible for getting the number right. Anything else does not matter to them.

There are a few other factors - sometimes the loss is so great, they factor that in. It makes no sense - like someone is going to pay 50% over market value for a BofA house than the nicer house next door, but sometimes they bump up numbers for silly reasons like that. You can get that info from the negotiator, too. Maybe you have, but you haven't said that you have gotten any reasonable explanation for anything they have done.

You can talk about the economy and foreclosures and not liking BofA - none of that is worth 10 seconds on the phone with them - they do not care - not their job, not their interest and does nothing to help your situation.

You either need to do something which has an effect on their judgment or just forget it and walk away.


Joan Psarros, CDPE, CRS, SFR said:

I received a counter offer from another offer on a property today. They also want $5,000 from the seller and reduce the commission to 5%. So, let's think about this the comps do not justify it. They want $122k and there was a similar home within a half mile away, same s.f. , age, etc sold in September for $78k. It was a BOA foreclosure. My property has a converted garage with no permit and no appliances. That one had the appliances and no permitting issue. Oh well I guess they want another foreclosure. Oh, but they couldn't possibly as they are pulling back all their foreclosures as they just realized that no one was reading the files before they foreclosed. Maybe, someone should be reading the files on these shortsales that are good and they would definately net out a lot more than the foreclosures. Also, they have to maintain the properties once they foreclose. There must be something that I am missing. We had another offer on this property for $110k several months ago . It was a cash offer and they wanted the same amount then . They supposedly had a new appraisal which I was exicited about. Another day dazed and confused in real estate.

Permalink Reply by Jon Zolsky on October 5, 2010 at 10:18am

We even had them countering, and then our client accepted the offer, and then they come back again with a $5K higher counter, after agreeing to another amount.
the buyer walked away, and for the last 2 months not a single call, not a single showing at the amount that they are asking now.
In 2 weeks goes into foreclosure.