Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Peggy K Fowler on October 6, 2010 at 6:58am

Who do you represent in the transaction?

Permalink Reply by H Razak on October 6, 2010 at 9:26am

The seller

Permalink Reply by Ned Turner on October 6, 2010 at 9:54am

By all means escalate the file.

Permalink Reply by Peggy K Fowler on October 6, 2010 at 10:08am

Here is my short answer. You rep the seller not the bank not the buyer. The point is to not let the bank get the control. You are doing the bank a favor by keeping the property from foreclosure. The bank will in fact reap 10-20% more from a short sale than a foreclosure you need to remind them of this fact if the deal falls through. You are providing the bank an alternative to foreclosure. Your relationship is with the seller remember you don't owe the bank anything. I am sure you listed the property at a 30 day sale price which is exactly what the bank will do when they end up with it as a foreclosure. They are messing with you. Don't let them. You probably need to move on up the line and get someone over this mitigator's head. Good Luck!

Permalink Reply by Shannon Noble on October 6, 2010 at 10:11am

I have all of my buyers order a full apprasial. It works! You have to understand the investor (holder of the notes) are trying to get as much as possible. But, if your apprasial only comes back less than the counter - than they have to go with apprasied value - especially if they is a lender involved (not cash offer).

Permalink Reply by Jeff Payne on October 7, 2010 at 7:08am

Who is the investor? Find that out and escalate to the investor. Also, become good friend with Ben Benita on this site and read what he says about escalating to the investor!! Don't give up because of the stall tactics and the bully mentality of this negotiator!

Permalink Reply by Adam Woodhall on October 7, 2010 at 9:16am

You said that you had submitted comps to the bank - what about current REOs in around that area? I would imagine they are listed less than your offer of 120k....it certainly can't hurt to suggest that IF they refuse your deal and go to foreclosure, they are automatically going to get less than 120k when they sell it as an REO....

Permalink Reply by H Razak on October 7, 2010 at 5:29pm

Thanks for all the replys.

Adam - Yes the REOs are listed way lower, like $108k / $110k (exact same house as subject). Those are included in my CMA/comparables. If I can only get someone with a brain to look at them I'll be good.



Jeff Payne said:

Who is the investor? Find that out and escalate to the investor. Also, become good friend with Ben Benita on this site and read what he says about escalating to the investor!! Don't give up because of the stall tactics and the bully mentality of this negotiator!

The investor is Fannie Mae. Can I just call BOA and escalate it to the investor? If not, how do I do that?
Basically I have two options here, escalate the file to the investor or talk with her manager right?
I will look up Ben's topics.

Thanks a lot for your help I really appreciate it!!

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on October 8, 2010 at 5:42am

To the bank, all agents are liars. CMA's mean nothing. An official appraisal is the only thing which will get them to look at a different value. This looks like either you have a totally useless braindead worthless piece of negotiator (not THAT often) or he has given you the calculated number. I guess about 2 or 3 out of 10 BPO's for my files are bad, so this is not unusual.

If you get nowhere, just resubmit after you either deny the counter or he kills it (and, no, you are not allowed to get ANY satisfaction out of denying the counter - they don't take that, they simple deny YOU for insufficient offer - you are not allowed to even feel like you stuck your finger in their eye....)

I have had zero luck with fannie mae - they now demand a 3rd party autho and I can't even get them to accept it. Anyone with even lousy eyesight would have no problem accepting it. Why do they need it in this case? Because the bozo's sent out an REO agent to change the locks and sell the house - and it didn't go to sheriff sale and we have an approval for a short sale. Their trying to sell someone else's house and the idiot on the phone won't even pass on the message. Yeah, their real pro's...

Permalink Reply by Terry L. Osburn on October 11, 2010 at 4:26pm

I escalated a similar situation back in February...Even though we still had some bloopers BofA came around and we closed.
Persistence... be nice....just be persistent.

Permalink Reply by Steve Early on October 12, 2010 at 6:56am

I agree with Joe B - your best bet is to get an appraisal done to demonstrate it won't appraise out at the price they are wanting. If they still don't move, this house is going to auction.

My opinion -
The investor (who is really driving the bus here) probably took out a MI policy or is using a credit default swap (CDS) to insure their investment. They decided a while back that this was a risky loan, bundled it up with other loans and took out a little insurance which kicks in if they foreclose. They made payments on the MI policy or on the CDS ... basically betting that this house was going to foreclose.

Now they have given you a ridiculous net figure. The investor has essentially said to Bank of America, "get this much or foreclose." If they foreclose, they buy it back at auction, put it in REO inventory, sell it for what it's really worth months later (perhaps for $90,000) and cash in on their policy. They get made whole (or maybe even make money). I have read that a CDSs can be "stacked" on a property -- the investor could place more than one bet that the loan will go south. A CDS is lightly regulated and there are virtually no reporting requirements on them.

That's what I think anyway every time I see these ridiculous counter-offers. It happens far too often for it to be a dumb mistake. They're not that dumb. If they were eating the loss on each of these properties, they'd do the short sale. The fact that they're coming up with these off-the-wall high values tells me they're making up for it on the other side somehow.

Am I wrong?

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on October 12, 2010 at 6:11pm

I'd say you are probably off in a couple of places. The MI gets in the middle because they know they will be paying at foreclosure - your comment suggests that they are the dumb ones and the bank simply goes to foreclosure so that the MI pays - MI's don't like paying, so I suspect they get involved.

Second, the bank doesn't eat any loss - they simply process the file and get paid for that. The investor loses, and if you want to see why our gov't loses money hand over fist, give Fannie Mae a call about any FNMA file that has a problem. They just don't care. My last 2? They have some REO agent go out, change locks and put the house on the market. One minor problem - we have a SS approval and it never went to sheriff sale. I called thinking that they'd like to not get sued or end up in court. Oh, I didn't have a 3rd party autho there - nope, they won't pass on the info. (Imagine a firehouse working this way - idiots). The other? I have a short term buyer for several reasons, he is offering 50% MORE than the market value in cash. This is well on its way to dying because BofA people absolutely insist on plodding along (2 months plus shot on this and contract is up friday). FNMA reply? Oh, we don't interfere with the banks. So, put a pile of gold in front of BofA to give to FNMA and they both complain about it being in the way and wait for someone to scoop it up...

And your "they can't be that stupid" Well, you did say "dumb mistake" and that isn't the same. The negotiator response to my plea for them to hurry (btw, the sob's cut out all closing costs on this 50% over BPO deal!!) is they they are within the proper BofA timeline. So, stupid, yes, mistake, no - on purpose they are idiots.

Your wording reminded me of a daily show debate about Fox news when they were talking about this bad mystery man behind the mosque thing in NY - and he happens to be a part owner of Fox news. They fiercely debated if Fox news people were tremendously stupid or tremendously evil - when questioned if they could be just somewhat off, both sides objected saying that, no, they absolutely have to be one or the other. It seems that they could be talking about BofA activities. ;-)

Steve Early said:

I agree with Joe B - your best bet is to get an appraisal done to demonstrate it won't appraise out at the price they are wanting. If they still don't move, this house is going to auction.

My opinion -
The investor (who is really driving the bus here) probably took out a MI policy or is using a credit default swap (CDS) to insure their investment. They decided a while back that this was a risky loan, bundled it up with other loans and took out a little insurance which kicks in if they foreclose. They made payments on the MI policy or on the CDS ... basically betting that this house was going to foreclose.

Now they have given you a ridiculous net figure. The investor has essentially said to Bank of America, "get this much or foreclose." If they foreclose, they buy it back at auction, put it in REO inventory, sell it for what it's really worth months later (perhaps for $90,000) and cash in on their policy. They get made whole (or maybe even make money). I have read that a CDSs can be "stacked" on a property -- the investor could place more than one bet that the loan will go south. A CDS is lightly regulated and there are virtually no reporting requirements on them.

That's what I think anyway every time I see these ridiculous counter-offers. It happens far too often for it to be a dumb mistake. They're not that dumb. If they were eating the loss on each of these properties, they'd do the short sale. The fact that they're coming up with these off-the-wall high values tells me they're making up for it on the other side somehow.

Am I wrong?

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