Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Brigitte Powell on September 23, 2010 at 12:18pm

Stand your ground if you can. They feel they have you over a barrel because they have agreed to the whole thing and now they are attacking your commission. "They refused to negotiate" ....how do you know that for sure? Because they said so? "I'm sorry but my broker is not agreeing to a cut in our commission" Send this email to all concerned. I think you just have to stand your ground no matter what. If more of us did that then they would either accept it or they would have a lot more foreclosures on their hands. I think we have to start taking care of ourselves first. This is still a business and to end up making 7.00/hour is a waste of my time.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on September 23, 2010 at 3:23pm

Jeanette, your problem is that you think real world, not bank logic. If you follow bank-think, you would have noticed that with that big push a couple of years ago for loan mods, the numbers showed something like 1% of what could be done was done. Banks frequently take every advantage possible and in that case, they knew that the majority of people feel bad about screwing up on their loan and rather than do as asked by the feds, they pushed people via guilt to pay more than they could or should. Of course, none of our swell politicians lifted a finger to help - and, I assume, they were properly tipped every time the banks came into town for their patriotic stances.

I am not sure, but your last line indicates that these are not gov't loans. If that is true, you will be stuck with whatever guidelines the investor states. I'll also assume that you know the bank and the investor are separate and that fannie mae and freddie mac have well known rules on what they will pay.

Agents who have done short sales before usually find someone in the office to put on as the 2nd agent so that they can avoid the issue of cut commission. Try to separate yourself from the issue. Depending upon the negotiators and bank, they will try many ways to get more money and there has been some seminar going around telling these banks to ask for more to boost income. They can lie about MI, they can lie about anything. Not legally, but you have to catch them - I personally would rather get the short sale done than play legal games.

So, back to the tactic - stay calm - it always personally upsets me that the first thing the bank does to reward me for bringing them an above market deal is cut any pay to us and the attorney, etc. But, I know, they are a bank and would kill you for a penny if you were in a dark alley and they knew they wouldn't get caught. So, it isn't personal and they really don't care what you went through, they have stats that say what they can push for and many times succeed in getting.

The worst are the credit/collections. They want a lot and the stats say that they will lose many to foreclosure by pushing for absurd numbers but the ones who find someone to cough up the $$ make the practice worthwhile on the average. They also dilly dally around until the day before you NEED to close and then spring something on you. Why? Well, if they told you 2 months before that they wanted an extra amount that was 1/2 your commission, you'd tell them where to go. But the day before when you see 100% flying out the window? Losing ONLY 1/2 looks appealing. Get their promises in writing early. You usually cannot argue logic against their stats and sometimes their egos.

Were I in your position, I'd research all I could. Who is the investor? You likely have people here who can tell you about some of their real rules. You may well find (as I have recently) that the bank people are flat out, no question lying to you. Then you hold firm, take names and ID's and tell them that you will be discussing these problems with the investor, etc. (When it gets severe, I do seriously say and mean that I am going to the D.A. for criminal action for violating Truth in Lending or whatever - the higher up you go in the chain, the more they know it is serious.)

Many of these people will try things because they have been told to. Unethical, but since when did people equate ethics with banks? They will back down. I have/had one who would not until the last minute and I would have killed the deal, and said so, multiple times for months. I confronted him flatly with his lies, why they are illogical and, in fact, verified our position that he was lying with a VP of a large bank. He stuck to it - this has not completed, yet, but I never want to deal with him again and will demand someone else if he comes into the picture. That has only happened once.

The bank handles accounts for the investor - it isn't their money, to a large extent, they don't care about the money just in meeting investor guidelines and getting rid of files one way or the other as fast as possible. Think about one of your points. Do you really think that the negotiator at this bank cares at all what happens to the house once it is not his file? Why should he? There is no feedback loop, in general. He "tried" to do as his management said and something didn't fit so too bad, foreclosure. Out of his hands and not his fault. Any reason why he should feel responsible for what "the jerks" over in REO do with the property? Nah.

When you look at the micromanagement, you can see what they are thinking. When you pull back, you can also see why the way they do things is why we have such a big mess. But it is what it is and that is NOT real world logic, that is bank-think.

Hopefully, that will keep you out of the heavy drinking every time you've talked to a bank -- just distance yourself and see what their world is and what they are interested in. This also lets you skip the useless talk about "don't they know what this is costing" and get into what makes this guy tick, what would tweak him.

Don't take the "I'm outraged" approach about things which mean nothing to them. And why do they care that you are outraged that they are cutting your pay in 1/2? They don't care. I'm guessing most agents will continue with the process and just not come back. Ergo, negotiator wins more $$. So, find ways to hit him where it hurts. Do you know what the BPO is? What the investor expects as net? Great to be able to THEN say that "it can't be done" and you'll walk and BTW, you will be in touch with the investor to discuss how this guy (and at this point I assume you've dragged in his manager, etc) and his manager, etc. are responsible for blowing a deal where the numbers required by the investor guideline were met.

And there are other ways to tweak them. You have to chat and be listening..

So, don't take it to heart, banks are cheap sob's to everyone, not just you. Go do some research and find what the particular guidelines are which effect you - knowing that also gives you lots of confidence when you tell the negotiator that the rule is... and he is full of it, stop LYING TO ME and NEGOTIATE in GOOD FAITH. And I'm sure you can come up with an "or I will" at the end of that. Depending upon your tone and if you surprised him with your actions or knowledge previously, you can just leave that off and let his feeble 3 brain cell imagination fill in the gaps for you.

I hope that helps -- Man, I've been writing WAY too much today.. Go get 'em!!

Permalink Reply by Jeanette Becker on September 24, 2010 at 1:35am

Thanks Joe! You gave me a lot to think about and prepare for the next round with these guys....

joe beauchamp said:

Jeanette, your problem is that you think real world, not bank logic. If you follow bank-think, you would have noticed that with that big push a couple of years ago for loan mods, the numbers showed something like 1% of what could be done was done. Banks frequently take every advantage possible and in that case, they knew that the majority of people feel bad about screwing up on their loan and rather than do as asked by the feds, they pushed people via guilt to pay more than they could or should. Of course, none of our swell politicians lifted a finger to help - and, I assume, they were properly tipped every time the banks came into town for their patriotic stances.

I am not sure, but your last line indicates that these are not gov't loans. If that is true, you will be stuck with whatever guidelines the investor states. I'll also assume that you know the bank and the investor are separate and that fannie mae and freddie mac have well known rules on what they will pay.

Agents who have done short sales before usually find someone in the office to put on as the 2nd agent so that they can avoid the issue of cut commission. Try to separate yourself from the issue. Depending upon the negotiators and bank, they will try many ways to get more money and there has been some seminar going around telling these banks to ask for more to boost income. They can lie about MI, they can lie about anything. Not legally, but you have to catch them - I personally would rather get the short sale done than play legal games.

So, back to the tactic - stay calm - it always personally upsets me that the first thing the bank does to reward me for bringing them an above market deal is cut any pay to us and the attorney, etc. But, I know, they are a bank and would kill you for a penny if you were in a dark alley and they knew they wouldn't get caught. So, it isn't personal and they really don't care what you went through, they have stats that say what they can push for and many times succeed in getting.

The worst are the credit/collections. They want a lot and the stats say that they will lose many to foreclosure by pushing for absurd numbers but the ones who find someone to cough up the $$ make the practice worthwhile on the average. They also dilly dally around until the day before you NEED to close and then spring something on you. Why? Well, if they told you 2 months before that they wanted an extra amount that was 1/2 your commission, you'd tell them where to go. But the day before when you see 100% flying out the window? Losing ONLY 1/2 looks appealing. Get their promises in writing early. You usually cannot argue logic against their stats and sometimes their egos.

Were I in your position, I'd research all I could. Who is the investor? You likely have people here who can tell you about some of their real rules. You may well find (as I have recently) that the bank people are flat out, no question lying to you. Then you hold firm, take names and ID's and tell them that you will be discussing these problems with the investor, etc. (When it gets severe, I do seriously say and mean that I am going to the D.A. for criminal action for violating Truth in Lending or whatever - the higher up you go in the chain, the more they know it is serious.)

Many of these people will try things because they have been told to. Unethical, but since when did people equate ethics with banks? They will back down. I have/had one who would not until the last minute and I would have killed the deal, and said so, multiple times for months. I confronted him flatly with his lies, why they are illogical and, in fact, verified our position that he was lying with a VP of a large bank. He stuck to it - this has not completed, yet, but I never want to deal with him again and will demand someone else if he comes into the picture. That has only happened once.

The bank handles accounts for the investor - it isn't their money, to a large extent, they don't care about the money just in meeting investor guidelines and getting rid of files one way or the other as fast as possible. Think about one of your points. Do you really think that the negotiator at this bank cares at all what happens to the house once it is not his file? Why should he? There is no feedback loop, in general. He "tried" to do as his management said and something didn't fit so too bad, foreclosure. Out of his hands and not his fault. Any reason why he should feel responsible for what "the jerks" over in REO do with the property? Nah.

When you look at the micromanagement, you can see what they are thinking. When you pull back, you can also see why the way they do things is why we have such a big mess. But it is what it is and that is NOT real world logic, that is bank-think.

Hopefully, that will keep you out of the heavy drinking every time you've talked to a bank -- just distance yourself and see what their world is and what they are interested in. This also lets you skip the useless talk about "don't they know what this is costing" and get into what makes this guy tick, what would tweak him.

Don't take the "I'm outraged" approach about things which mean nothing to them. And why do they care that you are outraged that they are cutting your pay in 1/2? They don't care. I'm guessing most agents will continue with the process and just not come back. Ergo, negotiator wins more $$. So, find ways to hit him where it hurts. Do you know what the BPO is? What the investor expects as net? Great to be able to THEN say that "it can't be done" and you'll walk and BTW, you will be in touch with the investor to discuss how this guy (and at this point I assume you've dragged in his manager, etc) and his manager, etc. are responsible for blowing a deal where the numbers required by the investor guideline were met.

And there are other ways to tweak them. You have to chat and be listening..

So, don't take it to heart, banks are cheap sob's to everyone, not just you. Go do some research and find what the particular guidelines are which effect you - knowing that also gives you lots of confidence when you tell the negotiator that the rule is... and he is full of it, stop LYING TO ME and NEGOTIATE in GOOD FAITH. And I'm sure you can come up with an "or I will" at the end of that. Depending upon your tone and if you surprised him with your actions or knowledge previously, you can just leave that off and let his feeble 3 brain cell imagination fill in the gaps for you.

I hope that helps -- Man, I've been writing WAY too much today.. Go get 'em!!

Permalink Reply by Jeanette Becker on September 24, 2010 at 1:38am

Thanks Brigitte! I did stand my ground on the Chase short sale and I will refuse to give in to a commission cut for whatever their reason. This site is a blessing to anyone doing short sales and everyone is so generous with their thoughts and their experience. Thanks!

Brigitte Powell said:

Stand your ground if you can. They feel they have you over a barrel because they have agreed to the whole thing and now they are attacking your commission. "They refused to negotiate" ....how do you know that for sure? Because they said so? "I'm sorry but my broker is not agreeing to a cut in our commission" Send this email to all concerned. I think you just have to stand your ground no matter what. If more of us did that then they would either accept it or they would have a lot more foreclosures on their hands. I think we have to start taking care of ourselves first. This is still a business and to end up making 7.00/hour is a waste of my time.

Permalink Reply by Jeanette Becker on September 24, 2010 at 10:55am

Joe, How do I find out who the investor is on the properties that I am short selling. All I know is the Bank's name that loaned the money... Thanks for your insight.

joe beauchamp said:

Jeanette, your problem is that you think real world, not bank logic. If you follow bank-think, you would have noticed that with that big push a couple of years ago for loan mods, the numbers showed something like 1% of what could be done was done. Banks frequently take every advantage possible and in that case, they knew that the majority of people feel bad about screwing up on their loan and rather than do as asked by the feds, they pushed people via guilt to pay more than they could or should. Of course, none of our swell politicians lifted a finger to help - and, I assume, they were properly tipped every time the banks came into town for their patriotic stances.

I am not sure, but your last line indicates that these are not gov't loans. If that is true, you will be stuck with whatever guidelines the investor states. I'll also assume that you know the bank and the investor are separate and that fannie mae and freddie mac have well known rules on what they will pay.

Agents who have done short sales before usually find someone in the office to put on as the 2nd agent so that they can avoid the issue of cut commission. Try to separate yourself from the issue. Depending upon the negotiators and bank, they will try many ways to get more money and there has been some seminar going around telling these banks to ask for more to boost income. They can lie about MI, they can lie about anything. Not legally, but you have to catch them - I personally would rather get the short sale done than play legal games.

So, back to the tactic - stay calm - it always personally upsets me that the first thing the bank does to reward me for bringing them an above market deal is cut any pay to us and the attorney, etc. But, I know, they are a bank and would kill you for a penny if you were in a dark alley and they knew they wouldn't get caught. So, it isn't personal and they really don't care what you went through, they have stats that say what they can push for and many times succeed in getting.

The worst are the credit/collections. They want a lot and the stats say that they will lose many to foreclosure by pushing for absurd numbers but the ones who find someone to cough up the $$ make the practice worthwhile on the average. They also dilly dally around until the day before you NEED to close and then spring something on you. Why? Well, if they told you 2 months before that they wanted an extra amount that was 1/2 your commission, you'd tell them where to go. But the day before when you see 100% flying out the window? Losing ONLY 1/2 looks appealing. Get their promises in writing early. You usually cannot argue logic against their stats and sometimes their egos.

Were I in your position, I'd research all I could. Who is the investor? You likely have people here who can tell you about some of their real rules. You may well find (as I have recently) that the bank people are flat out, no question lying to you. Then you hold firm, take names and ID's and tell them that you will be discussing these problems with the investor, etc. (When it gets severe, I do seriously say and mean that I am going to the D.A. for criminal action for violating Truth in Lending or whatever - the higher up you go in the chain, the more they know it is serious.)

Many of these people will try things because they have been told to. Unethical, but since when did people equate ethics with banks? They will back down. I have/had one who would not until the last minute and I would have killed the deal, and said so, multiple times for months. I confronted him flatly with his lies, why they are illogical and, in fact, verified our position that he was lying with a VP of a large bank. He stuck to it - this has not completed, yet, but I never want to deal with him again and will demand someone else if he comes into the picture. That has only happened once.

The bank handles accounts for the investor - it isn't their money, to a large extent, they don't care about the money just in meeting investor guidelines and getting rid of files one way or the other as fast as possible. Think about one of your points. Do you really think that the negotiator at this bank cares at all what happens to the house once it is not his file? Why should he? There is no feedback loop, in general. He "tried" to do as his management said and something didn't fit so too bad, foreclosure. Out of his hands and not his fault. Any reason why he should feel responsible for what "the jerks" over in REO do with the property? Nah.

When you look at the micromanagement, you can see what they are thinking. When you pull back, you can also see why the way they do things is why we have such a big mess. But it is what it is and that is NOT real world logic, that is bank-think.

Hopefully, that will keep you out of the heavy drinking every time you've talked to a bank -- just distance yourself and see what their world is and what they are interested in. This also lets you skip the useless talk about "don't they know what this is costing" and get into what makes this guy tick, what would tweak him.

Don't take the "I'm outraged" approach about things which mean nothing to them. And why do they care that you are outraged that they are cutting your pay in 1/2? They don't care. I'm guessing most agents will continue with the process and just not come back. Ergo, negotiator wins more $$. So, find ways to hit him where it hurts. Do you know what the BPO is? What the investor expects as net? Great to be able to THEN say that "it can't be done" and you'll walk and BTW, you will be in touch with the investor to discuss how this guy (and at this point I assume you've dragged in his manager, etc) and his manager, etc. are responsible for blowing a deal where the numbers required by the investor guideline were met.

And there are other ways to tweak them. You have to chat and be listening..

So, don't take it to heart, banks are cheap sob's to everyone, not just you. Go do some research and find what the particular guidelines are which effect you - knowing that also gives you lots of confidence when you tell the negotiator that the rule is... and he is full of it, stop LYING TO ME and NEGOTIATE in GOOD FAITH. And I'm sure you can come up with an "or I will" at the end of that. Depending upon your tone and if you surprised him with your actions or knowledge previously, you can just leave that off and let his feeble 3 brain cell imagination fill in the gaps for you.

I hope that helps -- Man, I've been writing WAY too much today.. Go get 'em!!

Permalink Reply by Jeanette Becker on September 28, 2010 at 1:51pm

I heard from Chase today and they approved my commission at 5%. But now they want to have the seller sign a personal note for $45000. Can they do that? I guess they can but how do they decide that the seller can pay it back? Can we negotiate it?

Permalink Reply by Jeanette Becker on September 28, 2010 at 1:56pm

By the way, this is a veteran of VietNam. I think this was a VA loan but I am not sure. How can I find out?

Jeanette Becker said:

I heard from Chase today and they approved my commission at 5%. But now they want to have the seller sign a personal note for $45000. Can they do that? I guess they can but how do they decide that the seller can pay it back? Can we negotiate it?

Permalink Reply by Brigitte Powell on September 29, 2010 at 2:39am

Negotiate negotiate ....til you drop :-)

Jeanette Becker said:

I heard from Chase today and they approved my commission at 5%. But now they want to have the seller sign a personal note for $45000. Can they do that? I guess they can but how do they decide that the seller can pay it back? Can we negotiate it?

Permalink Reply by Brigitte Powell on September 29, 2010 at 2:40am

Seller should know if this is a VA loan. Who is the servicer? They should also know. Or did I miss the point?

Jeanette Becker said:

By the way, this is a veteran of VietNam. I think this was a VA loan but I am not sure. How can I find out?

Jeanette Becker said:

I heard from Chase today and they approved my commission at 5%. But now they want to have the seller sign a personal note for $45000. Can they do that? I guess they can but how do they decide that the seller can pay it back? Can we negotiate it?

Permalink Reply by Jeanette Becker on September 29, 2010 at 10:43am

The seller said he thought it was a va loan. He moved to Arizona so he can be close to a va hospital out there. I thought maybe there was a similar way that fannie mae and freddie mac have a lookup.


Brigitte Powell said:

Seller should know if this is a VA loan. Who is the servicer? They should also know. Or did I miss the point?

Jeanette Becker said:

By the way, this is a veteran of VietNam. I think this was a VA loan but I am not sure. How can I find out?

Jeanette Becker said:

I heard from Chase today and they approved my commission at 5%. But now they want to have the seller sign a personal note for $45000. Can they do that? I guess they can but how do they decide that the seller can pay it back? Can we negotiate it?