BOA Please Learn what a Non Arms Length Transaction Is...really
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Horton on
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Christina, I am not sure what state you are in so I don't know if this applies to other states. In Arizona it does not make a difference if an attorney is involved or not, the listing agent is responsible for the transaction and has a responsibility to the seller (client) that covers all parties. Agents who claim they have no responsiblity because they have passed the responsbility to legal counsel could be in for a rude shock if something goes wrong and it ends up in court. The contract between the seller and listing agent brokerage is between these two parties and not the negotiators on the seller or buyer side (third parties not a part of the representation contract). This is why the arms length applies.
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Permalink Reply by John Bacon on
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I believe they are following the same rules which apply to their REO Listing Agents. When I list a house for a bank no one I am related to is allowed to purchase it.
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Permalink Reply by Becky Anderson on
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If you think of it as a traditional transaction it might help. It's not arms length and it makes sense. My husband and I buy the ones we can but we now know we can't buy with bank of america. the only way I would call in the troops on any of my short sales is if it was one I wanted for my personal home. Also can you prove you marketed it retail for at least 90days? If you haven't done your best to get highest and best well then it is a conflict of interest.
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Permalink Reply by Christina Conrad on
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No...you all have misunderstood or I explained it wrong....We are negotiating the short sale, we have no relationship to either party...I found out that isn't even what the issue was with BOA..they don't like attorneys initiating short sales in Equator, so they bulked about the relationship between the listing agent and the buyer....so we had the ss declined and initiated it under the listing agents Equator and now everything is fine...we have done this many times without issue....BOA just doesn't want to have to pay attorneys....go figure...lol...thanks for everyones thoughts.
Valerie: The buyer is a holding company and they are a LLC....they do have a relationship to one of the realtors at the real estate company, but all of that was disclosed up front...we even had a different listing agent list the property to avoid issues...everything is on the up and up...we are a law firm..we don't deal dirty....the whole issue is that BOA doesn't want attorneys initiating ss in Equator..once we changed that part of it..they didn't even care about the relationship between the buyer and the real estate company...
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That would be it ...you are absolutely right.
Kimberley Kelly said:Interesting stream. I'm seeing more and more out here in Palm Springs, CA., that ANY relationship between ANYBODY in the Short Sale could tank it. Remember that they have their "Guidlines", and the people on the other end are not going to investigate thoroughly..too many files. Just don't alert them by giving them any ammo at all..keep it simple. If they change their guidelines to help people like you, great! Until then, NO possible relationsips...
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We did assign another listing agent.....but they didn't care...it really had nothing to do with that..they just didn't want the attorney initiating the ss in Equator....it is silly
Alyce Nelson said:I do not like to side with the lenders, but… on this one… sad to say, if the agent is the buyer it is not an arms length transaction, as I understand it. Every arms length affidavit I have seen clearly included both agents as NOT having any relationship to the buyer/seller (beyond disclosed agency). Recently I have even seen the lenders including the escrow officer and requiring their signature be notarized as well. If you want to purchase this short sale another agent will have to do it for you. That is how I understand it and how the docs I see read. Good Luck!
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I am in Missouri...BOA is just becoming more picky...we do a full disclosure...we have never had issues until here lately...before we always initiated the ss under the listing agent...but the law firm set up their own account in Equator and since we did that BOA has had a fit with EVERY ss we have initiated..we have had to close them all out and initiate them under the listing agents Equator account..once we did that...the issue they were having with listing agent and buyer went away mysteriously...I also talked with someone at BOA, who told me off the record that their issue is with attorneys initiating ss in Equator..they don't like and they black list you if you do so....she said our best bet is to do the full disclosure, but initiate the ss under the listing agents Equator account...upload the attorneys 3rd party authorization and make sure they know that you will be the point of contact and the one negotiating the ss under the listing agents account..so that is what I did..so far no problem, but will keep you posted.
Mike Horton said:Christina, I am not sure what state you are in so I don't know if this applies to other states. In Arizona it does not make a difference if an attorney is involved or not, the listing agent is responsible for the transaction and has a responsibility to the seller (client) that covers all parties. Agents who claim they have no responsiblity because they have passed the responsbility to legal counsel could be in for a rude shock if something goes wrong and it ends up in court. The contract between the seller and listing agent brokerage is between these two parties and not the negotiators on the seller or buyer side (third parties not a part of the representation contract). This is why the arms length applies.
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I hear you BEcky...we go out of our way to make sure everything is on the up and up...we always sell the homes for the net amount the bank wants..plus the listing agents commission is more...the more they get on the home..so it really benefits none of us to low ball the property..we always try to get the best possible price because everyone wins that way...I know BOA doesn't like a lot of things and we really do try to accommodate them, because at the end of the day we are truly at their mercy...I personally, don't like dealing with BOA...I find them difficult and a lot of the negotiators are lazy and don't want to help you...sometimes it is like they are reading a script and there is no deviating from that script...I am in this to help the seller....a lot of people that have these jobs in short sales were former collection agents, so their mentality is not customer service oriented if you know what I mean...most of them only know what they are told..they truly are not educated in ss....enough of my soap box...lol..thanks for all the input...very much appreciated.
Becky Anderson said:
If you think of it as a traditional transaction it might help. It's not arms length and it makes sense. My husband and I buy the ones we can but we now know we can't buy with bank of america. the only way I would call in the troops on any of my short sales is if it was one I wanted for my personal home. Also can you prove you marketed it retail for at least 90days? If you haven't done your best to get highest and best well then it is a conflict of interest.
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Permalink Reply by Richard on
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Hi Christina,
First of all, let me say that I am not an agent. I look at this from an ethical standpoint. Let's look at any case, in fact we'll call it my case.
In my case, I do know for a fact that one of the two co-agents that are handling the transaction on the property I'm involved with has two sisters that want to move to my area from out of state and that one of the co-agents had been actively looking for them in this trendy community.
So now that I'm aware of this, let's just say how do I know as that my first offer on the home is indeed the first offer on that short sale considering the fact that I've heard very little (3 telephone calls and 2 e-mails), at best from the co-agents after 5 months long months of waiting? Also, how do I know that:
1) My offer has actually been submitted to the lender or,
2) A certain co-agent sister or relative hasn't offered on that same house as well and, it has been submitted to
the lender at a lower price, with plans of selling the house to me at the price I offered once the other other
offer is approved or,
3) Just maybe the co-agents are stalling the transaction and hoping that I will walk, just to slip in a back up
offer of less value or,
4) A relative with a low ball back-up offer if accepted would be willing to split profits with the seller and agent?
Sounds out if this world, right? Would any of those transactions scenarios above be fair to me, the lender or the seller? If something like does happen, then the buyer can lose the deal, valuable time invested and possibly other deals while waiting, the lender will get less money for the short sale and the seller will have a bigger deficency debt or note.
Yet, we all know that short sales are risky to start with and, transactions including relatives just add an element of unethical nature, even if there is none. As a buyer, you're on the outside looking in mostly. Your updates are your only communication and you have to display tons of trust. From a buyer or lender standpoint this paranoid feeling remains when you read or hear about unethical transactions that really do occur. Personally, where I live I've talked 2 agents who have come across events like this, but there are thousands of agents out there who mostly do it the right way and protect the integrity of the profession.
I would suggest that just maybe BofA has had similar experiences in this shifting market.
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I am sure you are right....my frustration comes from doing what BOA asks us to do and then it still be rejected for the same thing...I don't mind jumping through hoops to make a ss sucessful, but I don't like being a ping-pong ball and ending back where I began..that is a disservice to my client and a waste of my time...tell me what the problem is and I will correct it, but don't tell me how to correct and then reject it when I do exactly what you told me to do....this is where I always beat my head against the wall with BOA...I don't have these kind of issues with any other bank other than BOA...it truly is frustrating....thanks for your input.
Richard said:Hi Christina,
First of all, let me say that I am not an agent. I look at this from an ethical standpoint. Let's look at any case, in fact we'll call it my case.
In my case, I do know for a fact that one of the two co-agents that are handling the transaction on the property I'm involved with has two sisters that want to move to my area from out of state and that one of the co-agents had been actively looking for them in this trendy community.
So now that I'm aware of this, let's just say how do I know as that my first offer on the home is indeed the first offer on that short sale considering the fact that I've heard very little (3 telephone calls and 2 e-mails), at best from the co-agents after 5 months long months of waiting? Also, how do I know that:
1) My offer has actually been submitted to the lender or,
2) A certain co-agent sister or relative hasn't offered on that same house as well and, it has been submitted to
the lender at a lower price, with plans of selling the house to me at the price I offered once the other other
offer is approved or,
3) Just maybe the co-agents are stalling the transaction and hoping that I will walk, just to slip in a back up
offer of less value or,
4) A relative with a low ball back-up offer if accepted would be willing to split profits with the seller and agent?
Sounds out if this world, right? Would any of those transactions scenarios above be fair to me, the lender or the seller? If something like does happen, then the buyer can lose the deal, valuable time invested and possibly other deals while waiting, the lender will get less money for the short sale and the seller will have a bigger deficency debt or note.
Yet, we all know that short sales are risky to start with and, transactions including relatives just add an element of unethical nature, even if there is none. As a buyer, you're on the outside looking in mostly. Your updates are your only communication and you have to display tons of trust. From a buyer or lender standpoint this paranoid feeling remains when you read or hear about unethical transactions that really do occur. Personally, where I live I've talked 2 agents who have come across events like this, but there are thousands of agents out there who mostly do it the right way and protect the integrity of the profession.
I would suggest that just maybe BofA has had similar experiences in this shifting market.
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Hi again Christina,
Don't take offense to this, but I have laugh somewhat when you talk about jumping through hoops and being inefficient. You are so right. I work for a large quasi-goverment non-profit organization with plenty of money. I've also spent a lot of time prior in the private sector where I learned that efficient was a key to staying in business.
The very first thing I noticed when when working for the non-profit corporation was why it's called "non-profit". But what I tried to convince everyone of is, there is adsolutely no reason why we have try and prove the name non-profit every day. There has been not one backbone effort to make a profit and what's worse is people don't seem to care" It sad!! As EWF sang, "That's the Way of the World"
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No offense taken....if I can make someone laugh, I feel like I have accomplished something...lol
Richard said:Hi again Christina,
Don't take offense to this, but I have laugh somewhat when you talk about jumping through hoops and being inefficient. You are so right. I work for a large quasi-goverment non-profit organization with plenty of money. I've also spent a lot of time prior in the private sector where I learned that efficient was a key to staying in business.
The very first thing I noticed when when working for the non-profit corporation was why it's called "non-profit". But what I tried to convince everyone of is, there is adsolutely no reason why we have try and prove the name non-profit every day. There has been not one backbone effort to make a profit and what's worse is people don't seem to care" It sad!! As EWF sang, "That's the Way of the World"
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