Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lori Young on May 25, 2011 at 9:45am

Tell them no.  I usually find they will accept that as a final. 

 

Permalink Reply by Shannon Renner on May 25, 2011 at 9:51am

Yes, you can tell them no as they are just trying to "shake the tree' to see what your clients are willing to pay.  If they refuse as you go farther along (I have had only 2 clients have to pay), then you can offer maybe $3000 cash and no promissory note.  1 of my clients did a note for 5 years.  Another client was asked for $25k in a note and offered B of A $4k now and no note.  B of a took that.

Permalink Reply by BRADLEY R. CHRISTMAN on May 25, 2011 at 10:22am

They will always originally ask for a prom note, and cash contributions. At the very minimum it will be one or the other. Counter back zero immediately. I live in Arizona an anti deficiency state so I don't know if that makes a difference but the majority of the time they will accept zero.

Permalink Reply by Brenda Houghton on May 25, 2011 at 11:15am

Are your sellers able to contribute?  Do they have cash or assets?  Most of my sellers do not, and of course they've produced financial documents that support this.  Therefore I have them write a letter that says they do not currently have cash to bring to the table.  They do not feel their financial situation is stable enough to promise to pay back money, and they don't see any improvement in the near future.  Upload the letter into Equator.

 

I then counter the cash and promissory at '$0" each.  I have never had my counter turned down. 

 

Try this.  Good luck!

Permalink Reply by Stephen Shafer on May 26, 2011 at 7:24am

I always say no to promissary notes if the loan is covered by anit deficency law.

Permalink Reply by Cathy McAlister on May 26, 2011 at 12:01pm

Most of our sellers say no to any note, but a few of the sellers have offered $1,000.00 to bring to the table as a token.  Some negotiators have outright acknowledged that a buyer coming up a little in price and the seller putting a small amount of cash is helpful in the countering process.

Permalink Reply by Bryant Tutas on May 26, 2011 at 11:34pm

Be sure to ask the seller their thoughts first. Some sellers have no issue contributing to the loss. Don't assume they won't. Then if they can't or won't just negotiate it like you would any other deal. Negotiate until the sellers get the best deal they can then let them make a decision.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on June 1, 2011 at 12:03pm

Rarely has the BOA negotiator looked at the docs in any detail.  When I get these demands, I'll go back to the bank statements, the financial statement, the hardship - rarely to the seller, and look them over.  For one thing, BOA forms do not ask for liabilities, just assets.  I sometimes have to beat the sellers "sensible" since most look at finances and one more painful piece of paper to jot down "something" and walk away.  I don't like seeing things like $5K income and $3K expenses/mo.  I don't know that I've ever had the numbers turn out like that after I point out (and sometimes it takes a mallet) that accuracy counts.  I also get plenty where they've added the house payments that they aren't making as expenses..

Anyway, I look at the hardship to refresh the situation for this file (sick? other issues?), look at the financial statement (and I will have added the liabilities on top of whatever form I have for BOA) and then look for unusual things in bank statements.  If I find something strange, as I have from time to time, I'll talk to the seller where I'll find that he sold all of his tools to help pay debts or his son lent him the money to help out, etc.  All good info.

 

Then I get the negotiator on the phone - can be a super problem at BOA, if you have an average or worse negotiator.  And I usually mention a point or two and then ask what I missed that suggests he has cash to bring to the table and is able to make future payments.  Very frequently, this is where they fold.  They know that they are shooting in the dark, I've mentioned some things which means I have  a pocketful of other arrows for them and they know that I know the docs inside and out and they can barely find them.

 

Once, I had a response about something on a credit report (not from a BOA negotiator but a WF one).  So, it is worth listening and not being pushy.  I may point out a couple more things or wait until I find out the story behind what he found.  (This one was a "new car" and the negotiator was for 2nd lien.  The negotiator pointed out that the car payment was more then what is owed to his bank - good point.  However, the car was not new, the old one was dead and this was a used one for transportation to get to work.  Yep, the info finished him off - but I was impressed at his work.)

 

The MI companies can be a real pain and look at things in more detail, but the BOA negotiators are told to go fishing - and it is almost always very obvious.

 

Anyway, if you go over the details, keep them straight in your head, that is usually enough right there to have the BOA negotiator wander away muttering - and you just take those things off of your counter - possible with some message, if appropriate - like seller's son has increased medical needs, no extra money now, certainly unable to pay an extra note - or whatever seems fitting.  Sometimes it is good to remind the negotiator when he looks at your counter that you are the one who didn't roll over when he pushed for $$.  Otherwise, as "meticulous" as they are, they may forget and throw it back in.. (yes, tongue in cheek)..

Permalink Reply by John March on June 2, 2011 at 9:19am

very helpful, Joe, thanks.

joe beauchamp said:

Rarely has the BOA negotiator looked at the docs in any detail.  When I get these demands, I'll go back to the bank statements, the financial statement, the hardship - rarely to the seller, and look them over.  For one thing, BOA forms do not ask for liabilities, just assets.  I sometimes have to beat the sellers "sensible" since most look at finances and one more painful piece of paper to jot down "something" and walk away.  I don't like seeing things like $5K income and $3K expenses/mo.  I don't know that I've ever had the numbers turn out like that after I point out (and sometimes it takes a mallet) that accuracy counts.  I also get plenty where they've added the house payments that they aren't making as expenses..

Anyway, I look at the hardship to refresh the situation for this file (sick? other issues?), look at the financial statement (and I will have added the liabilities on top of whatever form I have for BOA) and then look for unusual things in bank statements.  If I find something strange, as I have from time to time, I'll talk to the seller where I'll find that he sold all of his tools to help pay debts or his son lent him the money to help out, etc.  All good info.

 

Then I get the negotiator on the phone - can be a super problem at BOA, if you have an average or worse negotiator.  And I usually mention a point or two and then ask what I missed that suggests he has cash to bring to the table and is able to make future payments.  Very frequently, this is where they fold.  They know that they are shooting in the dark, I've mentioned some things which means I have  a pocketful of other arrows for them and they know that I know the docs inside and out and they can barely find them.

 

Once, I had a response about something on a credit report (not from a BOA negotiator but a WF one).  So, it is worth listening and not being pushy.  I may point out a couple more things or wait until I find out the story behind what he found.  (This one was a "new car" and the negotiator was for 2nd lien.  The negotiator pointed out that the car payment was more then what is owed to his bank - good point.  However, the car was not new, the old one was dead and this was a used one for transportation to get to work.  Yep, the info finished him off - but I was impressed at his work.)

 

The MI companies can be a real pain and look at things in more detail, but the BOA negotiators are told to go fishing - and it is almost always very obvious.

 

Anyway, if you go over the details, keep them straight in your head, that is usually enough right there to have the BOA negotiator wander away muttering - and you just take those things off of your counter - possible with some message, if appropriate - like seller's son has increased medical needs, no extra money now, certainly unable to pay an extra note - or whatever seems fitting.  Sometimes it is good to remind the negotiator when he looks at your counter that you are the one who didn't roll over when he pushed for $$.  Otherwise, as "meticulous" as they are, they may forget and throw it back in.. (yes, tongue in cheek)..