Another flopping article on MSN
http://realestate.msn.com/more-short-sales-bring-new-scam-flopping
More assumptions without facts in this article. Looks like the buyers agent that lost out has some sour grapes. Would be nice to hear both sides of the story.
No mention of whether or not the offer that eventually closed was already accepted when this agent brought her offer. No mention of the terms of each offer.
Why does the bank or the investor not have any accountability in this? Don't they hire the BPO agents or appraisers? Doesn't the bank do their due diligence when approving a short sale?
Here is a paragraph from the article..... not surprising, again the lenders problem....
"Glenn Gulley, a real-estate fraud investigator with the district attorney's office in California's Stanislaus County – one of the nation's hot spots for mortgage fraud – recalls calling servicers repeatedly about fraudulent deals and never getting a call back."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Payne on
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Harry, very interesting to say the least. It would be very interesting to hear from both sides of the story. If she is correct, some heads need to roll for sure. Not sure where the KW Family comment comes from, I tend to take a bit of offense to that since I am part of the KW Family as you call it, don't really see the need to slam a company for the actions of a few.
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Harry,
I think the questions that I have would center around one question...
Did her offer get submitted before, during or after the accepted offer was ratified? Were her terms different than the offer that was accepted? Was the offer that was accepted a cash offer with no contingencies?
These types of articles only add fuel to the scam, flip, flop, fraud claims that Freddie Mac has right now. I only wish we knew both sides of the story. We will probably have to wait to see what happens with the complaint to get a glimpse of the other side of the story.
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Harry I appreciate your comments always, just don't judge all of us from the actions of a few :) If they did what they are accused of, they will get theirs for sure, ALC or not. At least they would if they did something like this to me.
My biggest problem is that this type of article paints all of us in a bad light and makes it look like what we do is fraudulent. In this case if the offer was so low, how or why did it get approved. The banks do have some responsibility in checking on these offers with appraisals and BPOs. They choose the agent that does the BPO so they either accept the BPO or find another agent to do it.
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Permalink Reply by Richard on
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Jeff and Harry,
I'm trying to keep my guards up on my transaction. I must admit that I do have my doubts at times. I've noticed some strange things in the local community, not just on my short sale offer but on others as well. But, I'm trying not to judge too quickly. A case in point, my wife called about seeing a short sale distressed luxury home over a month ago. She called back two weeks ago and they told her the agent had been re-assigned. The home is in a gated community. I was able to tailgate and get in to see the house a week ago. I estimate this home will need about $50-$75k improvements.
To this date, we've never received a call back. Then, we wake up this morning to find out that the home has been reduced $100k in price. If they want to sell the home, then show it. I have a couple more cases where I've witnessed strange activities.
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Richard, that is a whole other discussion, call backs :( Come to Panama City, I will sell you a home !!
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Permalink Reply by Smitty on
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What IS IT with this guy Hagberg? He's confusing the interests of his employer with what's actually LEGAL. UNREAL.
This is tell tale -
""In 4½ years, I've never had a bank call me and say we've been defrauded," he says, though he adds that they're slowly starting to respond as they put more staff in charge of mitigating these losses.
Instead, most of the calls he gets about this type of fraud are from thwarted homebuyers who read published sales transactions in the newspaper."
Was this agent's offer signed??? It says right in the beginning of the article that she went to make an offer, but the other agents already made one....so WHERE was there an issue? If she is in second position or back up and the first offer is accepted, I see it as sour grapes too. If the property was priced agressively it's no wonder people jumped on it.
A LOW COMP is NOT FRAUDULENT!!!! There is a VALUE RANGE for property...not just one number. If I have a house that I think is worth $350,000, I might be able to comp it at $300,000 and also $400,000 depending on the community.
This is just getting so far out of control it's unbelievable. The title of the article is about FLOPPING. Where was the flop? The other buyers made an offer, it was accepted and BAM, approved. She didn't get the house because she wasn't ready. Oh and keep in mind if both offers were presented at the same time, and the seller chose the lower offer, it's STILL NOT A FLOP OR FRAUD. A seller has the right to chose whichever offer they want and a $302,000 offer that's cash with no contingencies over an offer of $342,000 that's FHA or financed, needs an appraisal, inspections etc., may be a LOT less attactive to a seller who could be up against an auction deadline.
PURSUADING the bank to agree to any offer is NOT FRAUD. I'm a buyer and I want to buy a property at a particular price, I'm going to use whatever LEGAL means necessary to get it for the price I want. Right? Now bribing a BPO agent...clearly fraud, but OMG, using low comps to get an offer accepted...C'MON!!!!!
I couldn't agree with Jeff more. This just adds to the layer of fear people already have about flipping, flopping, fraud...I think I'm going to call it the 3F's from now on. But seriously, only TRUE EDUCATION of this stuff can lift that paranoid layer that is suddently getting heavier and heavier from recent misleading publications.
On a side note I'm not part of KW. Work in my own brokerage but KW is by far my favorite agency to work with. IMO KW agents are the most progressive and creative agents out there.
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Harry, I assume that you know alot more about the situation that we do since it is in your back yard. With that being said, it would be interesting to see if her offer was made before any offer was accepted.
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Harry, it clearly states she went to make an offer and someone else already had. Where was the side stepping? Did both offers come in at the same time? Even if they did it's up to the seller to sign ONE. If the seller signed with the others, I don't see an issue. A seller can take ANY offer they want. Now if the sellers TOOK your friends offer, signed it, and the agent at hand WITHELD it to put in the other buyer's offer, THEN there is an issue. I'm merely interpreting what I'm reading. It doesn't say anywhere in the article she had a FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT all it says is she went to place an offer in and was out maneuvered. I've submitted offers for buyers higher than list only to find out a lower price was already accepted. There is nothing "dubious" about it.
She claims it's robbery!!! How is it robbery? If you know of something different please doooo tell!!! Sorry. NO 3F's here. She never had an executed contract.
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Smitty, it would be very interesting to hear both sides of the story for sure.
Smitty said:Harry, it clearly states she went to make an offer and someone else already had. Where was the side stepping? Did both offers come in at the same time? Even if they did it's up to the seller to sign ONE. If the seller signed with the others, I don't see an issue. A seller can take ANY offer they want. Now if the sellers TOOK your friends offer, signed it, and the agent at hand WITHELD it to put in the other buyer's offer, THEN there is an issue. I'm merely interpreting what I'm reading. It doesn't say anywhere in the article she had a FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT all it says is she went to place an offer in and was out maneuvered. I've submitted offers for buyers higher than list only to find out a lower price was already accepted. There is nothing "dubious" about it.
She claims it's robbery!!! How is it robbery? If you know of something different please doooo tell!!! Sorry. NO 3F's here. She never had an executed contract.
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Fair enough my friend
Harry Clay said:Guys...suffice it that I know more than I care to discuss, & it's all hearsay, anyway.
I'm not involved, & I don't want to be.
However, I do believe that many of the allegations are accurate, & issues discussed in the article have, in fact, occured.
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I agree. Fair enough. Keep us posted Harry. I'd like to see the outcome of this one.
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Permalink Reply by MSI on
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There are people who will always defend any fraud. Here in Miami, fraud is rampant. Many houses for the short sales can never be viewed. They used to come on the market for few hours. Now days, they are listed for months but one can ever get to see them, let alone making a bid. You only see the eventual sale. None of these frauds can be executed without cooperating realtor. Like it or not - it is a fact.
Even the FDIC was selling the properties in a fraudulent manner by listing the 2B /2B property as 1B/1B or with incorrect address so the chosen few could bid.
Take a look at one of the bank in coconut grove. It would appear that their REO properties are sold without ever hitting the market to select few..
There is nothing much one can do. There is no one in the government who wants to listen or take down a complaint.
Smitty said:Harry, it clearly states she went to make an offer and someone else already had. Where was the side stepping? Did both offers come in at the same time? Even if they did it's up to the seller to sign ONE. If the seller signed with the others, I don't see an issue. A seller can take ANY offer they want. Now if the sellers TOOK your friends offer, signed it, and the agent at hand WITHELD it to put in the other buyer's offer, THEN there is an issue. I'm merely interpreting what I'm reading. It doesn't say anywhere in the article she had a FULLY EXECUTED CONTRACT all it says is she went to place an offer in and was out maneuvered. I've submitted offers for buyers higher than list only to find out a lower price was already accepted. There is nothing "dubious" about it.
She claims it's robbery!!! How is it robbery? If you know of something different please doooo tell!!! Sorry. NO 3F's here. She never had an executed contract.
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