Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Christy Cole on June 17, 2010 at 2:17am

Jean-how did this work out for you? I have the exact same issue now, approved through equator (B of A), now MI company wanting promissory note. Any insight would be appreciated!

Permalink Reply by Lisa Helweg on June 22, 2010 at 2:58pm

Christy-
I have not encountered a situation like this yet with B of A. How did you get approval from B of A before hearing from the MI company? Did you actually have approval in the form of an approval letter or by word from the negotiator? How did thisend up working out for you?

Permalink Reply by Deidre St. Romain on June 23, 2010 at 3:57pm

Jean: I just had one denied by BOA because the seller would not sign a 30K prom note from MI. The problem is that with mortgage insurers if it is a servicer paid or investor paid MI company they will get paid in full so they could give a flying ff if the seller signs a prom note - they get paid in full. This is what happened to me and I am so frustrated right now. I don't want to go through this scenario again but don't know how to avoid it. It is my understanding that they are unregulated and you have NO idea if they exist as they can be put on any time during the loan period w/out homeowner knowledge. Has anyone else out there come across this and successfully gotten the MI to go away? it seems to me a tad ridiculous that all parties have to go through the agony of this for months only to be denied by the MI because they hold all the cards. Feedback PULEEEZZEE!!

Permalink Reply by Stephanie Lim on June 25, 2010 at 5:12am

If you know who the MI company is, you could always try to deal with them directly. In my experience these demands have been negotiable although the bank negotiator tells me every time that they are not. I wouldn't just give in or give up! :-)

Permalink Reply by Susan Pierce on July 16, 2010 at 6:08pm

I am going thru the same scenario with BoA and the MI company. BoA approved the short sale and then sent it to the MI company for final approval. MI company wanted seller to sign a promissory note for $83k over 240 months, zero interest. Seller won't sign. We have been going back and forth with MI company and finally got them down to $20k note and seller to bring in $2500 in cash, which is stupid!!! If seller had the means she wouldn't be short selling her house. BoA closed the file and we were told to start the process all over again in equator. Mabey 2nd time will be the charm.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on July 17, 2010 at 6:33am

Some of it is a crap shoot - like the rest of BofA. MI walks around in very heavy boots - much more than they should. Negotiators sit up straight when one saunters by. Like the majority of negotiators and ghosts who wander the equator nights randomly hitting REJECT, they frequently do not look at finances or hardship info. They frequently make insane demands. Usually, I can point out that the real world is over .....---> here where the documentation is. Usually, they can be induced to read the data and drop the request. Sometimes not.

Like a lot of BofA, and a goldfish, there is no history/memory retention. On top of that, they change negotiators as fast as they get a fresh cup of coffee to go with those donuts. You should be mentioning, pointing out the obvious repeatedly.

I try to be pre-emptive - it usually does not work because they don't read before making a demand or hitting REJECT - that is a big part of the problem.

I currently have one where they demanded $15K from these 2 crippled ladies where only 1 can now work part time and they think their car is worth $15K - that is the sum of their wealth. MI dropped it. Another couple of rounds of counters, now MI wants $7500 - the negotiator did NOT form a complete sentence, did not make it clear what they want, I'm assuming, and like BofA activities a lot of the time, they want a response in 72 hrs and it is no 48 hrs with no answer to my question about just what they are asking. (including to managers, etc. - there is NO ONE responsible in equator land).

Again, I pointed out while asking exactly what is being requested, that these 2 are dead broke. It may kill the deal - MI generally is unaware that means that THEY will be paying 85% of that bad debt - they should be a little more interested in doing the deal than they are.

Stay on top of it, make sure you have all the bad info from the seller (many just throw together the financials and hardship - stupid when that is what MI bases a lot on - keep pushing, and keep your fingers crossed. Just like BofA, MI have their own "logic" which often have nothing to do with anything real - try to think parallel to the person you are attempting to communicate with (yes, attempting, they are good at not responding).

Hope that helps..

Permalink Reply by Jan Hurren on July 17, 2010 at 7:58am

Hello Deidre,
Are you saying that the seller did not have PMI insurance...and that it was added at some point along the secondary market pathway? This would be very interesting if so. I have asked at the bank at the start, if the note is investor owned and if so, specifically who. Maybe you can ask this at the start for PMI also?

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on July 17, 2010 at 9:03am

Well, you are pretty much correct. I've asked my insiders about MI since I hadn't been confronted until this last month on a few. The MI walks around the Equator mother ship like Darth Vader - don't look into his eyes, etc. What they tend NOT to take into account is that if they force the house into foreclosure, they WILL be paying 85% of the loss to the investor. I'm guessing that if your deal was a decent one, MI management, if they have 1/2 a brain - I don't know - it seems like everyone in this industry has a memory of a week so can't put together that Fred killed the SS at $290K and so we have to pay our $50K when the house gets sold for $260K or some such. Then maybe they'd be more careful.

The best thing I think I can do in these situations is point out the financials for the seller and the hardship - hardly anybody at BofA bothers to read what is in front of them. And, point out that if Fred here makes you lose this great above market value sale (mine usually are - why mess with low-ball and keep wasting time and money?), then he will be forcing them to pay out a bunch that MI will not be paying if he just backs down and takes the deal.

Also, I think that if you can offer something, it psychologically helps him go back with a story as opposed to being totally defeated. You know, every car you buy has to have a story - much better to let him go back and brag about getting $1.59 out of you than have him forced to admit that he got $0 out of you, right? After all, he could be human ya know.. ;-)

Deidre St. Romain said:

Jean: I just had one denied by BOA because the seller would not sign a 30K prom note from MI. The problem is that with mortgage insurers if it is a servicer paid or investor paid MI company they will get paid in full so they could give a flying ff if the seller signs a prom note - they get paid in full. This is what happened to me and I am so frustrated right now. I don't want to go through this scenario again but don't know how to avoid it. It is my understanding that they are unregulated and you have NO idea if they exist as they can be put on any time during the loan period w/out homeowner knowledge. Has anyone else out there come across this and successfully gotten the MI to go away? it seems to me a tad ridiculous that all parties have to go through the agony of this for months only to be denied by the MI because they hold all the cards. Feedback PULEEEZZEE!!

Permalink Reply by Brenda L Wood on August 5, 2010 at 6:17am

I have a puzzling situation with BOA/Equator and Old Republic (MI). Homeowner had no idea there was MI on the 2nd (both BOA) being negotiated through Equator. Old Republic contacted me directly and not negotiator in EQ. Made some outlandish demands, I countered, they countered and we finally settled on $2.5K at closing and a $5K note. This was in addition to the 5K first was giving. I asked for instructions in writing and the agreement in writing stating that the above would settle the debt. Never received anything; didn't even know where to send money to at closing. According to my title company, the wording of our approval letter allowed us to close without any approval from the MI company. We closed on this transaction and both liens were released and 5K was wired for the 2nd. A month later the Old Republic negotiator is now calling me again. Of course I have instructed my client to seek the advice of an attorney, but I am just curious here if anyone has had this happen and what were the repercussions of not following through on the verbal agreement? As far as I know my client is willing to keep her end of the agreement but I am wondering to what avail?

Permalink Reply by Kathy Batterton on September 27, 2010 at 5:18am

Brenda, Negotiating one right now that they have backed down on the promissary note but still want $5K cash. We MIGHT be able to scrape the money together but they will NOT sign off as satisfied on the note! Why should we beg borrow and steal to get together $5K and still have the deficiency?

Any input would be helpful.

BOFA says I can have approval TODAY. Not sure this is the way to go anymore.

Brenda L Wood said:

I have a puzzling situation with BOA/Equator and Old Republic (MI). Homeowner had no idea there was MI on the 2nd (both BOA) being negotiated through Equator. Old Republic contacted me directly and not negotiator in EQ. Made some outlandish demands, I countered, they countered and we finally settled on $2.5K at closing and a $5K note. This was in addition to the 5K first was giving. I asked for instructions in writing and the agreement in writing stating that the above would settle the debt. Never received anything; didn't even know where to send money to at closing. According to my title company, the wording of our approval letter allowed us to close without any approval from the MI company. We closed on this transaction and both liens were released and 5K was wired for the 2nd. A month later the Old Republic negotiator is now calling me again. Of course I have instructed my client to seek the advice of an attorney, but I am just curious here if anyone has had this happen and what were the repercussions of not following through on the verbal agreement? As far as I know my client is willing to keep her end of the agreement but I am wondering to what avail?

Permalink Reply by Stephanie Hart CA 310-930-2342 on November 4, 2010 at 9:09am

Brenda.. I ma dealing with old republic right now. They are tellin me they NEVER take prom note. Very interesting to hear they were willing to on yours. How has this worked out for you?

Brenda L Wood said:

I have a puzzling situation with BOA/Equator and Old Republic (MI). Homeowner had no idea there was MI on the 2nd (both BOA) being negotiated through Equator. Old Republic contacted me directly and not negotiator in EQ. Made some outlandish demands, I countered, they countered and we finally settled on $2.5K at closing and a $5K note. This was in addition to the 5K first was giving. I asked for instructions in writing and the agreement in writing stating that the above would settle the debt. Never received anything; didn't even know where to send money to at closing. According to my title company, the wording of our approval letter allowed us to close without any approval from the MI company. We closed on this transaction and both liens were released and 5K was wired for the 2nd. A month later the Old Republic negotiator is now calling me again. Of course I have instructed my client to seek the advice of an attorney, but I am just curious here if anyone has had this happen and what were the repercussions of not following through on the verbal agreement? As far as I know my client is willing to keep her end of the agreement but I am wondering to what avail?

Permalink Reply by Brenda L Wood on November 7, 2010 at 7:55am

Stephanie,
The final chapter... After this case went to closing I got a call from a different person at Old Republic than the negotiator I had been dealing with. Apparently my negotiator was no longer there (surprise!) They asked how we got permission to close since BofA didn't own the second. (Never in my 13 months of negotiating with BofA did they indicate otherwise...) It was on the approval letter from BofA. Although Old Republic had agreed to accept a note and monthly payments, my client just wanted to be done and paid the $7500 in a lump sum through wire that same day after OR issued a written statement to release the lien.

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