Chase Bank sells BK 'Discharged' junior HELOC debt to Five Lakes Agency, to collect this uncollectable debt.

Need feedback, help and advise.

I've listed a home (Nov. 2011)  in Scottsdale AZ, for a seller who was discharged of his Mtg Debts thru Chapter 7 BK in  2 months prior-Sept.2011.

The seller did not want a secondary negative credit reporting of a  'foreclosure' on his credit after his BK, so that is the reason he would like to short sell.

The first Lien holder ( B of A) approved the short sale and offered the junior Lien holder (chase) $6,000 to release the lien.

Chase sold or transferred their Mtg debt to a Debt collector named Five Lakes Agency (out of MI), who I believe works under the company known as Randall, Miller & Associates P.C.

This Debt collector has demanded all the short sale info and  contract, including the buyers (who I do not represent) Pre Qual letter. (Fincancials!) in which I  provided everything to them to move for  their approval.

This Debt collector stated, "The house has NOT been on the Market long enough, and to dump this accepted buyer and find another one who will pay them $20,000, otherwise, the sale will NOT happen". They said they "will NOT forward the contract and B of A offer  that pays  Chase $6,000 and a minimum of $20,000 is all they can forward to Chase." 

Now, let me get this straight..

A 3rd party (not associated with the debt in Michigan,  is a negotiator for a short sale which is  practicing Real estate- UNLICENSED in AZ-  as well as attempting to collect an 'uncollectable' debt from a party (Buyer)  not associated with the actual debt- in order to strong arm a hold on the junior Lien release.

What happened to MARS compliancy?  How do I get past this Debt collector to let Chase KNow they have $6,000 free money to simply release the Lien in which they have to do anyway if the home forecloses...

Anyone- anyone- ?



Views: 7038


You need to be a member of Short Sale Superstars to add comments!

Join Short Sale Superstars

Comment by Kathy Smiley on February 7, 2014 at 8:56am

I love Debra's suggestion that this be re-evaluated as to how to satisfy the demands of the lenders (and help the servicer). As short sale listing agents, I agree that many times we get on board too tightly with the buyer, and forget we have a job to do for the seller. In reality, the seller doesn't care who the party is that ultimately purchases the property - they just want someone who is capable of it to do so! If there is a buyer out there willing to pay the additional money (going into the Spring season, I suspect there will be) why not focus all attention on finding that buyer? Good luck! 

Comment by Anna Chroscicki on April 27, 2012 at 8:49pm

Like with all "short sale advises" is never 100% sure thing. First of all, Chase as second lien holder hires a lot of collection agencies ( I have one deal that I already dealt with two). And yes- truth is- Chase makes decisions, But as to buyer paying the difference between what 2nd wants and first gives, there is one, big could be obstacle- First Lien Holder has to agree to it. So after you get second to tell you what they need and after buyer tells you that they agree to bring difference  to closing, ask first if they will allow it. because it happens a lot when first says : "If anybody brings any money to closing, it comes to us", so then, all negotiations can go to hell.    

Comment by Debra Savittieri on April 27, 2012 at 4:54pm

I suggest sending Five Lakes Agency -Chase Bank the following:

A complete CMA analysis that shows the Buyers offer is great! If the Buyers offer is NOT so great- then get rid of the Buyers. Simple.

I would provide the  Five Lakes Negotiator your  marketing status of the listing as stating verbatim on the ad-  'NEEDING BACK UP OFFER!" 

This shows Five Lakes you are trying to get other offers and are not sucessfull therefore Five Lakes might reconsider.

Pull comps and share with Five Lakes to prove your Buyers offer  is a high  price! If it isn't a good offer- well- Bye Bye Buyers.

IN your letter also state the Seller has moved out and the property is declining and wasting away.

There are alot of words you can use to get Five Lakes to at the least, give you an amt they will accept  to move forward.

Do not be  afraid to simply tell the Buyers Rep- The BUYERS need to pay extra funds or cancel thier offer.

The good old 'take away' from the BUYERS, always works for me!

If you tell them they cant buy the property for what they wanted to buy it for, they will usually offer MORE! Buyers are getting great deals in purchasing  these short sales!

Stop working so darn  hard for  the Buyers- Close your short sale asking the Banks "what do you need?"

Then market that requirement on your MLS AD and all of your Marketing.

You will obtain the Buyer that will close the deal once the Buyer sees your ad. There will be no misunderstanding nor rediculous negotiations required by you on behlaf of a buyer you dont even represent.

 Too many Realtors are taking too much time trying  to get the Buyers too good of deals...sheesh!

Working FOR the Bank and the SELLER in which is what a Listing Rep does.

You will get another Buyer- why fret?

Now go change your mls ad and send a letter with the ad to Five Lakes.

Comment by Shelley Gross on April 23, 2012 at 1:30pm

I am having the same problem FIVE LAKES AGENCY who is handling the negotiations for CHASE, the second was a WAMU equity line, the buyer offered 24,000, I had the approval with RCS which expired on Friday, but Five Lakes didn't approve it so they said they sent it on to the bankruptcy recovery department at Chase who said she didn't approve it be cause it was too fast.  HELP any suggestions

Comment by Kevin - Greenville, SC on April 13, 2012 at 7:12pm
Comment by Debra Savittieri on April 13, 2012 at 12:10pm

I  just closed my sale (4 months)  with Junior Lien holder-Five Lakes Agency for JP Morgan Chase! The truth is...they are starting to  take zero as a junior lien holder rather than settle for $6,000 on ANY transaction. This is part of the CONTRACT between JP Morgan Chase and Five Lakes collection agency. CHASE is the entity that tells Five Lakes- Don't send us any offer to  accept  less than 10% of the note owed them. Chase/Five Lakes wanted $20,000. After several MONTHS we offered them $15,000 on a $200,000 Heloc. They rejected it. This is my thought and My RULE from now on &  that I have implemented to get the rest of my short sales closed. ASK THE BUYER FOR MORE MONEY or let me drop out and (1.) Advertise in your  UNDERPRICED listing **what both Lenders MUST have*** to close the transaction. The BUYERS WILL PAY the 10% extra! OMG! Like the commercial states: I could of had a V8!  Let the Buyers pay- let the buyers pay- stop working your fannies off for the buyers..YOU are listers- You are working for the Seller and the Sellers Banks! Not the BUYERS. With that attitude change you can close faster!   

Comment by Debra Savittieri on April 13, 2012 at 11:57am

Tiff: Upload a revised HUD that shows the Buyers 'cash contribution' to five lakes agency and give the HUD to B of A to APPROVE.Once approved by B of A- The outcome is the same and Five Lakes should accept it if the monetary outcome is what Five Lakes wants otherwise they are 'impending a sale'. Also call Angela Milliman, 855-824-1000 EXT 1107 or Ext 1116, at Five lakes to ask her what exactly the issue is...Her email is [email protected] She was helpful with my transaction and got it closed.

Comment by Tiffany Alleshouse on April 11, 2012 at 2:21pm

I am working with Five Lakes on a 2nd and B of A on the 1st.  Five lakes insists on $3200 and B of A will only cover $2520.  Our Buyers will cover the difference of $680 but 5 Lakes refuses to allow the Buyer to pay and states B of A has to pay the whole thing.  This is NOT a HAFA short sale so what's the problem with the Buyer paying the difference?  Five Lakes doesn't seem to be making wise business decisions.

Comment by Debra Savittieri on February 26, 2012 at 1:15pm

HI Anita:

Congrats on your negotiating the junior DOWN...but my point was- make it easy for your Sellers (if you are the listing agent)  and get the funds that the bank's want- from the buyers. They WILL pay it. Trust me! 

The debt collector for Chase Bank, known as  Five Lakes Agency's 'contract with Chase' (as I did get the info directly from Chase) is that  Five Lakes Agency does NOT negotiate the deal- Chase does,only after Five Lakes Agency gathers the Listing package and offer and submits it to Chase..but here's the contract between  Chase  TO Five Lakes Agency.." Chase will NOT review any offer less than 10% of the note owed to them paid at coe'' PERIOD.  Now again- that is ONLY if the seller is not a hafa or co-op seller. As far as 'why' any junior Lien holder would prefer to  take nothing and a foreclosure, rather than less then 10%? Simple--> junior liens that have been 'written off already' from the Banks Books-via Sellers BK's and it costs them alot of money to now take a profit or put the money back on the books- they need MORE money to hire the people to handle the transaction etc etc. What alot of realtors are missing is this->  The  MAJOR thing the junior lien holder holds is a MAJOR thing-'The Lien'.. Now that IS the major factor that gives them power- and frankly  'trumps' us all- when fighting the war  on closing  short sales for sellers who are NOT Hafa or Co-op quailfied.- and, I must say, smart of the junior lien holders to start hiring outside debt collector waiting for short sale offers frankly. (ouch)  I am  Not exactly  on the Banks side- or frankly neither am I a fan of any seller who stashes mtg or HELOC loan money away and are not Hafa or co-op approved, but since the Buyers are getting to steal these homes- why NOT get the Buyer to belly up and close the sale with some extra cash?.' I say- Buyer beware!  I represent the  short sellers and the banks best interest when I negotiate the short sale- and if any Buyers  want to buy my seller's short sales, I disclose the situation in the listing to obtain the strongest buyer who WILL belly up &  will pay the 10%.  I think more Realtors need to concentrate more on the fact that THEY represent  the Seller and the sellers Banks,  and  NOT the buyers-therefore  make  the short sale simple....find out first what both banks want and advertise it that way in yoru MLS ad- and close it in 30-60 days so we can get these homes off the market. 

Comment by Anita Sanda on February 26, 2012 at 12:10pm

Very informative and helpful Debra. Thank you so much as I am not familiar with Five Lake Agency and was concerned after reading your post. I am surprised that Five Lake Agency would rather see a foreclosure than accept less then 10%. Maybe there is "after market" Mortgage Insurance on the note? Maybe they stand to make more on the loss? In any event to encourage others...I have successfully negotiated two other 2nd mortgages that went to collection agencies after being charged off - BOA / 3rd party - Real Time Resolutions and Compass Bank / Internal collection department. Both of which accepted less than 10% of the note after negotiations (Real Time Resolutions accepted $3000 on a $55K note and Compass Collections accepted $3K on a $82K note).


© 2018   Created by Brett Goldsmith.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service

********************************** like buttons ************************