Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sailor Roy on September 25, 2011 at 4:15am

    Whoa, slow down!  I'm not an agent; in fact, have already made arrangements to list w/an agent.  There is no collusion or fraud; everything has been exceedingly transparent to WF, & both the previous owner & I sought legal counsel prior to the property being deeded to me.  I am attempting to buy the property through a short sale, but that is of little benefit to this poor guy who had the house & has already moved on.  He is resigned to being a renter the rest of his life & wants nothing more to do w/the property.

     I think your comments were based on an assumption that I am an agent.  The only commission would go to a licensed agent I just met Friday.  This is an arm's length transaction, though I do have POA limited to details of a short sale.  Yes, it was a coincidence that the hurricane delayed the sale, though I have been in similar situations & the transfer of the deed (not an overblown mortgage) has indeed delayed sales long enough for me to arrange short sales.

     Let me emphasize that this is an attempt to legally work w/WF & that I hope I have clarified that there is no attempt whatsoever to defraud anyone.  You may not like my deal, but let's put a halt to the accusations.  I asked some legitimate questions in order to get advice from those who are familiar w/ WF practices.  I own several homes on the same block, & am merely attempting to protect the neighborhood from yet another derelict house.  If anyone has answers to my questions, or advice as a way to approach the previous owner for cooperation on his financials, I'd be appreciative.

     Thom, Newport Beach was my home port for many years, & it was from there that my late husband & sailed--eventually to the east coast--after we retired.  I have many fond memories of Newport Beach.

Permalink Reply by Sailor Roy on September 25, 2011 at 5:01am

The owner/neighbor rec'd nothing from me. I came recommended to him by local authorities who are aware of the work I've done in my county to provide decent affordable family housing.  He understood my desire to preserve the neighborhood & did not want his labors on the home to fall into disrepair.
In fact, I have spent a great deal of $$$ repairing hurricane damages & code violations, & if it ever stops raining, I'll be maintaining the yard.  The deed is in the name of a trust established for this purpose.  WF has already informed me they are not enforcing the DOS clause.

     Thom, the reason I queried this list is because I figured you folks had much more experience in this than I, & that this would be a great place to try to figure out what to do about the financials, whether there was an alternative, or if there were recommendations how to achieve cooperation from the previous owner.  I'm all ears--

Permalink Reply by Sailor Roy on September 25, 2011 at 5:30am

Thanks, Thom!  If you think of anything later, pls LMK--

Permalink Reply by John Treadwell on September 25, 2011 at 3:31am

I have to agree with Thom,  Get out of whatever this mess is fast this has fraud all over it

Permalink Reply by Sailor Roy on September 25, 2011 at 4:16am

Please see my reply to Thom--

Permalink Reply by Sailor Roy on September 25, 2011 at 8:37am

A red flag is an indication of caution, not necessarily of intention to defraud.   The previous owner & I sought legal counsel prior to transfer of title so that there would be no question of our intent.   Such transfer is out of the usual experience of many agents, but a common occurrence in transactions NOT involving an agent.  This is just as true, in my experience, in CA as in NC, though the laws & practices may have changed since I left CA a couple of decades ago.  Rather than necessarily an indication of fraud, Harry, it is often merely an end run (or a Hail Mary pass!) that puts the title holder 1st in line for doing a deal w/the bank.  Evidently, this is not true when the bank is WF, & after my unfruitful experience w/them I wouldn't touch another WF short sale.  I haven't found them to be helpful, even when it is in their best interest & w/out going into more personal detail about the seller's situation, it appears they have adopted an officious attitude as policy in lieu of knowledge & experience.  The previous owner of this property was truly victimized in a subprime loan originated by WAMU, & was subsequently reamed by WF.  I'm not certain what was done to him was not criminal & I think it is a shame.  I wanted to help him avoid an auction, but it doesn't look like that is going to be possible.

Permalink Reply by Bryant Tutas on September 25, 2011 at 6:05am

It's simple. If the seller is not willing to participate in the short sale then the short sale will not happen. He will be foreclosed on.

Thom. Short Sale Superstars is open to all. We have buyers, sellers, investors, attorneys, title companies, lenders, negotiators, agents, brokers and my lovely wife as members. Wendy and I have always felt that getting input from all angles is beneficial. It keeps us from getting stuck in the agent box. Being able to see the short sale from a different perspective can help us in our business. Don't you think?

Permalink Reply by Thom Colby CA Brkr 888-391-5245 on September 25, 2011 at 6:20am

Bryant -

 

Absolutely - the more perspectives / experiences, the better.   That's why I said:

"My bad for thinking you might be an agent that's why I "asked" in my opening comment.  Most dialogue on this site is between agents sharing tips and nuances of the short sale process.  (Short Sale Superstars  = Agents & Brokers)" Again, my bad for making the assumption.

 

Thom

 

Permalink Reply by Kathleen Lordbock on September 26, 2011 at 2:06am

Still sounds like a mess to me - with a property deeded to a trust but then the prior owner attempting to do a Short Sale- selling what?  He just deeded the property away so how can he then attempt to sell something he does not own?

Since Mrs Sailor's trust is the new owner, why would WF not ask for financials from that or set up payments, after all she believes that a Quit Claim Deed now " puts the title holder 1st in line for doing a deal w/the bank.". What is the real estate agent for and how are they now listing the property?  Will it be listed on the MLS as a Short Sale with an accepted offer- or now Mrs Sailor will do a Purchase Agreement to buy it? I have more questions!

Permalink Reply by Sailor Roy on September 26, 2011 at 3:07am

Yes, it is a mess.  The original owner is out of the picture, but I have a POA authorizing me to act on his behalf.  This is something agreed to in consultation with an attorney we both trust. A few years ago I used an identical POA to sign a purchase agreement both as buy & seller in a short sale.  I asked the bank if that is how they wanted me to do it, & the answer was yes.  Odd solution, perhaps, but they got a real problem off their hands extremely quickly & I have got a home placed in an education trust that is going to put my 4 great-granddaughters through college.

 

WF has the right to ask for financials from the original owner, but based on his horrendous experience w/the bank he is not willing to provide them any accommodation.  Because neither I nor my trust is on the hook for the mortgage, my financials are not of interest at this point.

 

WF requires an agent list the property in a short sale, even if a buyer is already @ hand.  However, this cannot be done w/out short sale approval--something we are unlikely to obtain.  At this point it looks like I'm going to have to eat my loss, uninstall the appliances, & sign the property back to the original owner.  It will go to sale, & if I can't buy it there, I'll watch it until HUD puts it back on the mkt.  I did that w/the property next door & it took nearly 4 years, w/the home going into greater disrepair every month.  This is virtually criminal to my mind because we are in a hurricane disaster county with families who've lost everything living in tents.  I get calls all the time from agencies begging me for vacancies, but I have none left after taking in 2 families.  There are small children sleeping on the ground (this week's paper had a photo of one on the front page) while adults can't figure out how to resolve superficial issues.

So, Kathleen, the answer to your primary concern is that this deal is currently dead in the water, but I'm willing to take another tack to get to my destination.  Note, dear agents, that while nutso deals don't usually end up on your plates, they are the bread & butter of investors.  Any time you can work on these, there are investors ready to put $$$ in your pocket.  Tidy deals don't interest savvy investors because they are too expensive.  We like problem properties.

Permalink Reply by Kathleen Lordbock on September 26, 2011 at 3:31pm

Maybe the lenders need to allow more mortgages to be assumed at a lowered (short) price with all the buyers we have that now can not qualify for a traditional mortgage but could still take over the mortage of someone needing to sell short because of moving, divorcing etc.

For Mrs. Sailor- you may well do best waiting for this property until after foreclosure. It may get bundled up and sold or it could be a long wait. Without the cooperation of the seller- I think would be very difficult to get through with Wells, however I could be wrong.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on September 28, 2011 at 3:02am

As said already, seller not cooperative? Then no short sale.  This guys "tooK" say $100K from the bank and doesn't want to give bank statement and paystubs and 4506-T to get off the hook for it?  Fine, stay on the hook.  Really, is that like work on the part of the seller?  Hardly.  How can the bank NOT look at this as the guy probably hiding a zillion dollars and trying to defraud them?  What's he hiding in his bank account, pay stubs and tax records?

Unless you are hiding something else here, you have to get out of this mess.  Besides hiding stuff, what earthly reason would this guy have for refusing to show papers to the bank to get out of this problem?  Uh, none..  If he is crazy, well, you have POA, you get the papers and you hand them over.  Why do I think that is not the case?  Is there any legit reason to want to keep these papers private?  I cannot think of one - and somehow you can? Something is missing here..

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