Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Teresa Simon on December 26, 2011 at 2:05pm

Can I say that I think you are not getting the fact there is nothing short about a short sale.  these pages are full of a whole lot of issues.The bank, the buyers the sellers, the unmaintained properties, the looted properties,  The legal problems.  as much as somehow you want to BLAME the agent they have probably done EVERYTHING they possibly know to do and will net next to nothing EXCEPT a whole lot of heartache and finger pointing trying to keep YOUR deal together.  Agents are EXHAUSTED and TIRED of being blamed.  Good for the agent for trying to get YOU the home you THOUGHT you wanted.  I know people that purchased a foreclosure home in ARIZONA and can't get their payments credited to the mortgage because of all the legal wranglings still going on.  MaybeYOUshould become an agent so YOU can enjoy the ride. 

Good luck!

 

Permalink Reply by Janean Reich on December 26, 2011 at 2:51pm

Thank you for your reply Teresa.  I think you are misunderstanding things.  I know she has worked hard with us on this sale.  I just don't understand why she wont tell us what is going on.  At this stage we don't know if the sale is on or if they have thrown the file in the garbage.  She is claiming she doesn't know.  Now as a buyer where do I go to find this out?  I only have our agent to go to and she doesn't know.  I'm only looking for some guidance and help.  Why cant she call the listing agent to find out these simple questions we have. That's all we are asking her to do.  Otherwise she has not had to do much with the sale, it's been more of a waiting game for 9 months for all of us.  Cool your jets Teresa, this was not an attack on our agent it was a plea for help.  I felt I should at least explain why we were asking for help otherwise everyone would just tell us to call our agent..... and that;s the problem... she doesn't have the answers. 

You have no idea what we have been through with this sale.  It has been hard, very hard on us.  There is a lot more to this story and some of it would make your jaw drop.  We just wanted some guidance.  And for the agent trying to get us the home we thought we wanted.  What part of 9 months do you not get how much we love this house.  Us staying with this sale has nothing to do with her.  She was always telling us we could back out of the deal when ever we wanted. How is that trying so hard?  I think she just lost interest, not us.  I'm trying to keep her from wandering away and have always, always told her how much we appreciate her help and to hang in there it cant last forever.   No, we stayed in it because we love this house and we are trying to do everything we can to keep it.  This house is in an historic area and we have been watching it go down hill.  The more time that passes the worse it will only get.

We want her back in the ring with us but the impression  I get is she isn't truly qualified to take the sale all the way through.  The only reason our offer is still active is due to us not any agent.  You don't know the half of it so you should have just stuck with trying to answer the questions I asked and not take the opportunity as a good time to cheer lead for the agents.  Not all agents are good and not all are bad.  They are people just like everyone else, I get that.  So, maybe she was just being short with us because she was in the middle of doing some shopping... I don't know and I don't care.  I just want to know whats going on with our offer.  I'm trying my best to not insult her and go straight to the listing agent.  So calm down Teresa.  I am too old to care about the why's I have a goal and that's to buy this house and help the buyers get back to their lives again without all the worry.  I am not a child, in fact I'm a grandmother.  This is not the first house I've ever bought.  Don't comment unless you can help. My life is too too short... literally and I've spent almost a year waiting for a house that has received no other offers in the last year and a half other than ours.  Unless you can help I suggest you just relax, step back and let someone else with an open mind and knowledge to step up.  You have issues, don't take hem out on me. 

So I take it you don't know the process either Teresa?  .

Thanks for trying to help.

Permalink Reply by Tara Samney on December 26, 2011 at 4:12pm

Janean - Harry's post is dead on and Teresa is correct in pointing out this is a short sale and there are no promises of time or acceptance included.  You made a counter (for an addendum) on an "appoved short sale".  This is not the same as a counter during negotiations before the bank issues an approval for the price.

Your agent is relying on the seller's agent who may not be getting anything more from the bank other than it is still under review.  They also are not quick to respond to offers that are below their min. net. You may want more of an answer than that- but no haggling or complaining makes it happen faster. In fact it may just prompt the listing agent to start searching for a back-up offer.  I am sure your agent will let you know immediately if there is any news- b/c she wants this to move along also.  She is also looking out for your interests by encouraging you to back out if you cannot handle the wait or it doesn't seem to be moving along. 

Just b/c it isn't what you want to hear- doesn't give you the right to insult anyone on this board. I'm sure Teresa has been on the agent side of a short sale that hasn't closed- there is no compensation and it is exhausting (especially for listing agent) in the level of paperwork required as well as the toll of countless emotional emails, calls by buyers and sellers, and trying to find certainty in an uncertain process. It is wonderful when it closes but in the end you have to know you did all that you could do- even if they don't go through.  Some don't.

Multiple asset managers, "lost" paperwork by the bank, contact numbers that come in and out of service...this is nothing new...especially over 9 months. 

As Harry pointed out a cash offer has no more weight to the bank than good credit and financing lined up.  The only appeal to it is if properties are accepted in as-is condition and don't need to go through underwriting review of any deferred maintenance or appraisal contingency. Since you took the inspection to lower your price...you lost the appeal of that in your offer.  They also do not care if it is the only offer that has ever come in.  It is a financial decision and there is a min that needs to be met that is tied to the BPO.

I would not be surprised that you did have to start all over or the bank is just not interested.  They didn't respond to your addendum request.  Likely your "approval" will expire within so many days if you do not close according to the price they agreed to.  Typically on a short sale if you encounter too many problems during inspections buyers walk- not expect the bank to lower the price.  On properties that are iffy buyers usually get an inspection prior to making an offer (even if just a friend who knows something about houses).  Harry is correct- since you brought problems to their attention they may be ordering another BPO and may relist if it comes in higher than your offer or counter yours or just ignore it. 

Also, the listing agent has no reason to speak to you and likely won't since you are represented by an agent.  Their interests are the seller's.  I am positive if it was moving along the listing agent would get the info to your agent-which would get to you immediately.

Just because you love the house and have waited this long- doesn't give you a right to the house.  If you hadn't countered at inspection you very well may have closed by now.  There are so many variables that come into play- Harry hit on lots of there.  There is no guarantee a short sale will close, must less an approved short sale.  It is the bank's decision - their approval of the sale and all counters is a contingency of your contract.  After 9 months there could also be a foreclosure process starting which could complicate it.

If you cannot handle the wait and the risk you may not get approved at what you want to pay- then you should walk.  That is what buyers can do.  That is their leverage. There are PLENTY of houses out there, and short sales are not for everyone.  Your agent cannot make it happen any faster at  this stage. Also, the banks have all sorts of deadlines buyers and sellers must adhere to- but good luck with any recourse for them not sticking to theirs!

You also have no contract with the bank. Only the seller and their agent have authorization with the bank.

I wish you luck. Patience is the key on any short sale.  Some close much faster than others. Some buyers are more suited for the process than others.  The fact this is causing you so much stress...you may want to walk now and find another house (that is not a short sale) to enjoy. You likely could close in just a few weeks with a cash offer.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Smitty on December 26, 2011 at 4:47pm

I have to agree with everyone else and stress that the inspection should have been done UP FRONT.  I encourage all buyers to inspect within 7 days of executed contract or before.  No one wants a hold up at approval time.  I'm not sure why your agent didn't encourage this.  Keep in mind your agent gets limited info from the buyers agent.  If she is telling you she doesn't know then she doesn't know.  Ask her to call the list agent and ask for weekly updates, even if there is no info. 

I'm sorry this happened, but this is all normal in short sales.

Permalink Reply by Teresa Simon on December 27, 2011 at 4:13pm

As usual... I guess I should feel  the feeling of being thrashed around by all the parties to the transaction... a little skin?The fact is that the Realtors are probably the biggest victims in the transaction.

We get the nasty calls from the neighbors that think we should mow the lawn, replace the smoke detector batteries, and trim the hedges, the banks that don't understand that the bpo's are innacurate, that have never seen the properties and really don't understand market value, the seller that takes the knob off the doors so it can't be shown, won't maintain the property, doesn't respond timely and neglects to give us the paperwork and questions our motives,  the buyers who are operating under the rules they bought under 5 years ago and thinks a home inspection with issues warrants countering the issues to the bank and expecting a timely answer and didn't prepare financially or emotionally for the counter which almost always occurs.  The bpo people who call upset because they are locked out for obvious reasons such as BPO and appraisal assistance or on-going burglary rings damaging the properties...

And after that we should maybe take a commission reduction for incompetence? 

Yes! It is possible that I might be misusnderstanding it from the "buyers perspective".  But then, MAYBE NOT!  I think I get the frustration.  This site is not exclusive to any one perspective.  It is time to STOP losing sleep over the PROPERTY of YOUR DREAMS!  There is a home for everyone  The only failure an agent might have made is to not disclose that this property may not really be available. 

We are dealing with these homes all day long.  WE are not in control!   If I was the agent and not in the middle of a transaction  I would misunderstand it some place else assuming I had clearly explained the process from the beginning..  It's not personal.  It is ONLY going to happen if everyone decides to make it happen.  It IS NOT an entitlement.  It is in fact someone asking to buy something from someone for less than they it sold for and asking them to agree to pick up the bill. 

IF I sold a home to someone for $100K and they stopped making the payments and someone came along and offered me $50K but I fix the property at my expense after a home inspection, I am not so sure I'd like that deal.  I may elect to do a different deal.  

In all of my clueless days, (including tiday) I have OWNED over 50 homes.  I have had 33 rentals at one time.  I have had over 20 mortgages I was paying in to in any given month. 

I have been the lender selling over 20 homes on contract at the same time.  I took four homes back in foreclosure at the same time and it almost put me under.  I have been the borrower in trouble and the bank without payments at the exact same time!

I had to place vendors force place insurance, pay the unpaid property taxes, hire the foreclosure attorney, pulled two homes out of bankruptcy court by lifting the stay.  I finish the foreclosures, and evicted the prior homeowners out while carrying the payments without receiving the payments.  Then I had 4 homes down with deferred maintenance.  And thank God never a late pay while my credit lines were cut to almost nothing.

so hit me with a wet noodle... I think we should blame the agent... because they are the person one can get them on the phone... and cut their commission.  I think we should call them nights and weekends and hand them a paint brush. You're right.  I don't get it.  That is why I use this site.  We have so many others using this site that are clueless with me.  I appreciate the help I do get.  And to be able to learn from others questions, answers and experiences.

Sign me off clueless in Washington

Teresa Simon

Designated Broker, ABR, GRI, CDPE, HAFA Certified, appraiser

Permalink Reply by Teresa Simon on December 27, 2011 at 5:39pm

Janean,

You're welcome for the reply.  I guess I'd rather you rip on me and everyone else than your very patient Realtor.  And you are on a site of a whole lot of Realtors.

Oh and one more thing.

In one statement you said "The listing agent kept our offer active mainly in hopes it will approve then list it as a pre-approved short sale.  Eventually we were able to regroup, regain some inner strength and try it again.  We stuck with it.   It fnally was approved.as.  Inspection was next. "

Later you go on to say...  ""The only reason our offer is still active is due to us not any agent."

I find those statements to be conflicting...

 

Two of my favorite quotes I keep near to my heart is from the person that told a group of people that she knew how to speak well. The problem was that people just don't listen.

 

The other was a reminder that people are striving to do half the job we think we are doing.

 

Go ahead... I am clueless...

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Janean Reich on December 27, 2011 at 8:04pm

Everyone completely misunderstood.  I came here to find some simple basic general process info.  That's all.  The reason I added info on the agent is so it would save everyone the effort of telling me to ask my agent.  Because I did.  She said she didn't know.  Now, I assumed she would know.  That's what you call thinking highly of someone.  She always has the answers, she always knows... OK, 98i% of the time she has the answer.  I wasn't sure if our counter offer would go through the regular process that it would if the sale wasn't approved.... 

WAIT.  this is where I think everyone is getting confused or whatever you are getting....

My question was a good question and everyone missed my point.  i wasnt bashing anyone, only explaining why I was asking.  I didn't say anything that was wrong.  I just said she was playing the dumb card by saying she didn't know.  And I referred to "playing dumb" because I know she knows to ask the L/A.   And if she honestly didn't know or have the sense enough to ask the L/A then that would be a completely different issue.  I was giving her credit for knowing the procedures.  But at the same time I was making a point that she's forgetting the most important answer you can ever give a client no matter what field of work you are in... and that's if you have the answer, you tell the client/customer "that you don't know, but you would be happy to find out for them and contact them then"

I know she knows this is important, this is why I was confused.  But heck, for all I know she was on a plane on her way back east, and really didn't want to deal with it.  Or maybe she was shopping... I don't know.  But what I do know is it wasn't like her to not let me know she would find out for me. 

I don't know, you agents need to realize that we hang on your every word because this is very important to us.  We are putting our trust in you and that's not easy to do with a stranger.  Most of us don't buy a house every day and when the process is completely different than what we've always know. well, we are going to ask questions and we will rely on your answers and manner in which you convey them to keep us level headed and positive.  

Getting short answers or no answers all of a sudden is nothing less than confusing and causes you to wonder whats wrong.   It's a very normal human reaction.  What wasn't normal was the reaction from people. 

Teresa, I see what you mean with the statements, but like most of the rest you are taking it wrong.  The comment about the only reason the sale is still active .......  It was hard to word it... sorry.. I meant that we wanted the house, and we never made any progress because the file kept getting handed off to another negotiator and the process would have to start all over again.  So it just meant that we wanted to give it a chance.  I didn't want to back out with the thought of "I wonder if it would have approved?"  It would haunt me, so we gave kept going on with it until.  That's all I meant... I was trying to keep it short... and it didn't work to well.. sorry 

i was only asking for someone to be so kind as to let me know if the process was different.  The L/A is the real issue.  She's been the most destructive to us and that includes our agent.  This is not a client against Agent issue.  It was a plea for help due to the L/A.  My agent just handled it poorly.  No on died, no harm.  I just wanted the easy answer to some things. 

I know the process when you counter back to the lender counter from the lender while the approval process is still ongoing.  This usually happens in the beginning of the process and hopefully it ends in a mutual comfort zone for everyone.  We had to do this because the listing agent was so off on her list price... about $80,000 off.  I'm telling you, she was a problem from day 1, plus she said it would be a quick process, 3 weeks max.  Wrong and next to impossible, she would set us up for huge letdowns constantly.  The only nice way to say it is she a big story teller.  And we would believe her every time and be hurt and disappointed every time.  And it was driving our Agent crazy.  

Anyway...

I was asking if there was a different process path when you counter an APPROVED price...

Do you see the difference?  I felt that since it was approved it might not need to go back to certain departments for review and could bypass one or more.  But some details would require several tasks to be revised. This could involve research for repair cost, termite work cost, asbestos removal, mold clean up costs or what ever, research of some kind will probably be needed.  Then it must be re calculated and depending on the outcome it goes to or is presented to the investor.  There might even be the chance the investor would supply the negotiator with a price range to stay within, in the event the buyer was to counter the approved price...(knowing that the inspection was still pending) and the negotiator would have the power to approve the buyers price if within the range.

Cant you see I'm just looking for something to look forward to.  I hated to counter offer... and I probably would not have done it but my husband trumped me... he was going to walk if we couldn't counter.... And no, there isn't another house like this one.  It is unique and a great house.  We have looked at others they don't come close to this one.  It's everything we have wanted.  And when you're not young you are mostly looking for a place to settle and stay in for good.  There was no choosing another.  Everything else needed major work done.  This one always was the best choice and no one else wanted it.  The uniqueness of it was probably what kept it from selling or even getting offers.

 

I don't know if this made any sense.  or if it's in an understandable order.  I didn't mean to piss everyone off.  Maybe I just need to learn to explain better.  I try to keep it short and end up confusing the issue.

Sorry, and thank you for the info you guy's.  I actually was able to figure some things out on my own.  As for my agent... she is still trying to get the L/A to contact the negotiator.  I actually reminded her that there was a girl that she would contact sometimes, she even tried to get her to negotiate our sale, anyway, this girl would sometimes get her through some barriers and get things moving again.

And this is what burns me... why do I have to think of ways for the L/A to contact the negotiator.   Why didn't she think to call this person 3 weeks ago.  It just feels like she really doesn't care about us or her clients the sellers.  She lacks the human aspect of what she's doing.

Thanks again.

Let's see how this one goes.  Thank you for your honesty, just try it mixed with a little nice next time...please.  I've had a very bad year, very very bad year and it isn't over yet.  :-)

Let me know what I need to explain better.

Permalink Reply by Janean Reich on December 31, 2011 at 4:12am

NO, Tara, you are wrong again.  The questions were not answered.  I was only told what WE should have done to avoid this from happening.  Nothing I can do about that now.  How was any of the information helpful or topic specific.   And Tara, if I ask my agent to call the L/A... well... wouldn't that be the same as telling her how to do her job? Talk about contradicting.

WE TRIED TO GET THE INSPECTION TAKEN CARE OF RIGHT AWAY, But the sellers would never get back to their agent with a day and time that would be convenient for them.  We also wanted to view the home again but we weren't able to do that for another month.  The sellers were trying to move out while their son was moving in.  The house was cluttered and I'm sure they wanted to be left alone while they reorganized their lives.   They had a 20' Aluminum Dingy flipped over in the middle of the front room when we walked the property the first time.  

Our agent did everything she could to get the inspection done at the appropriate time. Since this could not be done, we chose the next best strategy.  A strategy that everyone says is unheard.

Understand this, we did not cut the price drastically, it was only for the amount it will take to replace the BUILDING.  It's not like it was a shed.  It was another house one the property.  We are not morons, we can pretty much figure out how the investor will see it.  While you were thinking about how smart you are and how stupid we are... did you once bother to  gather some facts first?   Do you have any idea what the market is like here?  Did you even bother to see what city we live in?  FORECLOSURE   You would really make your clients eat the loss or withdraw the offer.   You working for them or the lender?

The simple fact that you said I do not need to think of ways for anyone to do their job tells me that you cant work with people.  A team player you are not.  How do you think problems get solved...  In most cases they are solved by people suggesting what they feel might be a solution.  What the hell could it hurt.  Some will work and some wont.  What an arrogant narcissistic snob you are to think you know everything and everyone else are best when they keep their mouths shut.  Not only are you arrogant you are weak.  Don't forget  who you work for and who is paying you.  Thats right, people just like us.  To think that you would let or force your  clients to pass up what could be the only chance at their dream home all because you're gutless, lack problem solving and out of the box.  

The sale was approved yesterday.  You tell me this then, how does our price adjustment differ from anyone finding a home for sale that is an approved short sale?  And they have an inspection preformed and this issue comes up with the guest house or maybe it's the garage, it doesn't really matter what it is.  What do you do, tell them they have to eat the damages?  Why should they? You'll never get that house sold if it 's over priced.  (And you're the expert... wow. You impress me less and less)So in your mind the buyers would not be able to submit an adjusted price?   It's no different than what we did.  Same principal.  This is what was so entertaining for me watch.  You could not take one scenario and find a similar situation that you could compare it to.  As I have said, I only asked a simple question and you are not understanding my point.  I wouldn't hire you if my life depended on it.  And I wouldn't ask for your help either.

So take a note:   Yes, the process can be much shorter if a bid is submitted against a approved shot sale.   No one addressed this and this is what I was asking.  And if I'm wrong then point out where the answer is.  And a word of advise, keep your belittling comments out of these posts.  This is to be used for the sole purpose of getting help.  Not for you to make comments and personal insults on.  If you cant supply good personal experience information directly related to the specific issue that could actually help them, then DO NOT POST ANYTHING AND KEEP YOU PERSONAL OPINION IN YOUR FAT ASS MOUTH. 

Next time if you just cant help yourself and you're itching to tell someone everything they are doing wrong... make sure you do a little research first.  And evidently we now know who has the problem with paying attention and staying focused. 

You chose to make this personal with your name calling and snide tone.  How did anything you or anyone told me helped in any way.  Don't dwell on what you cant change just to make them appear stupid.  Realize no matter what you do the past can not be change.  Start with what they can do now or what had worked for you or what your experience in a similar situation was.  Get over yourself and remember this is not for you to boost your name or your own ego.  It is to help others, period.

Don't ever think you are so good at what you do that you can afford to refuse input from others.  They do it for the benefit of everyone involved.  If you can't handle accountability and don't have the spine for enforcing it where the negotiators are concerned then why are you even working short sales?   You are the reason the process has not evolved.  Don't you dare make a suggestion to them, it may improve things...

2 weeks or less to receive the decision from the investor.  All that was requested from the seller was a new Letter of Hardship.  Again, this was a Chase Short Sale.

Buyers will stop obsessing when you stop being doing this only for the money.  Isn't that what really bother you about clients submitting a bid less that what you had planned on?

Permalink Reply by Janean Reich on December 31, 2011 at 4:08am

What information have you offered here that can help us in any way...?  None. If you don't have the answer or a personal experience of your own to share that actually addresses the question, don't bother commenting.  No one wants opinions or your personal digs.  If you can't help don't bother wasting your time.   You're just another one that cant handle accountability and completely forgets that you are hired to help.  Learn to work for the client, not the lenders.  Get a clue.  And you might try to get rid of your snotty approach, it makes you look typical and full of yourself.  And it surprises me, because from what you've told me, as a Realtor you're weak and afraid to step out of your comfort zone for a client.  Every sale is different and every client is unique.  To one it might be just a roof over their heads but to another it's a dream come true or maybe an accomplishment met.  Don't be condescending about what it means to someone.

I know you were trying your hardest to be nice.  And you do have some good points.  But as you mentioned, you are not seeing it from this side of the fence.  You really need to find a way to relate.. It could only work out for the better.  But please don't tell people to walk away from the battle.  To stop losing sleep over it... forget your dream.... Really?   And the BPO's, how could they ever be right when a drive by is how many are done.  Luckily the L/A had in the listing write up that the house needed lots of work... And we figured our bid accordingly... but the guest house was not.  So our adjustment was justifiable and evidently the investor agreed.  And I'm sure the pure fact that the house is in Stockton, CA had something to do with wanting to just offload the property and run.   You have to open up all possibilities.  And if your clients want to come to you and whine and tell you how frustrating it all is, then you comfort them, remind them of their options and let them decide if they want to go ahead.  This is what I meant when I said "we" were the reason..... She didn't force anything.  We're grown up's.  We get it.

Again, remember, the clients hired you, you work for them and you will get paid for services.  You are not their boss, you are their adviser, that is all.

By the way it's the same as bidding on an approved short sale.... Duh... I could have mentioned it sooner but why do that.  And miss watching you "not" get it.  The process takes 2 to 3 weeks.  Ours was approved...    

There, now I taught you something instead.  Remember, this is a help forum and that's all.

Permalink Reply by Bryant Tutas on December 31, 2011 at 4:49am

Hi Janean. Staying committed to a short sale for more than 9 months is commendable.

Once an approval is countered the file has to go back to the investor and/or mortgage insurance company for approval. This could take days or it could take months. Much depends on who the investor and MI company are.

The correct way to counter of course would be in writing. Provide a revised contract or addendum that has been signed by both buyer and seller and agreeing to the new terms and conditions. This would be submitted to the lender with minimum 2 estimates from licensed contractors for the work needing to be done plus a copy of the inspection report showing the repair issues.

If these things were not submitted I would suggest doing it now. Be sure the seller is in agreement and has signed the new agreement or addendum.

The presentation to the lender most go through the listing agent. Unfortunately you and your agent are pretty much at the mercy of the listing agent knowing what they are doing.

I can tell from reading your post that you are frustrated with the situation. And rightfully so. Frustration usually stems from lack of communication. So....someone is not communicating with you properly and keeping you informed of what's going on. Your agent has no part in the short sale other than writing the deal for you and can only provide you with the information they are receiving from the listing agent. Assuming they are sharing the info they have then the lack of communication would fall on the listing agent. It is their job to keep all parties informed of whats' going on.

We train our agents and students to send out weekly updates. Even if the only update is "I haven't been able to reach the lender." Sometimes that's the best we can do.

At this point I would first make sure that your contract is still in affect with valid dates and signatures. Then prepare the counter as I suggested above and make sure that gets to the listing  agent to be submitted to the lender. Be sure to stress to both agents how important it is that you are kept in the loop. In fact. you could even have the seller agree in writing that his agent provides you with weekly updates.

That's really all you can do.

Please feel free to contact me direct if you want to discuss. I would also be happy to assist the agents if they have any questions. My direct line is 407-873-2747. I will be back in the office on Monday morning. My email is [email protected]

I hope this helps.

Permalink Reply by Bryant Tutas on December 31, 2011 at 4:51am

And to all. Please be sure to keep the conversation on topic. No personal attacks. OK?