PNC Bank
Has anyone had much luck with the second mortgage department with PNC (formerly National City). I have a short sale where the sellers have a $105,000 second mortgage. What has been your experience?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amy Cole on
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Hi Jim, I currently have a lot of experience with PNC in regards to a pending short sale going on since July 2009. To put it nicely, they are very inconsistent, and have messed up my deal more than once. They are junior lender on a purchase money loan in a California primary residence with Wells Fargo as the primary lender. House was purchased 4/2007 for 345,000. with 50,000. coming from PNC (National City) Fair market value is 189,000. and it took Wells Fargo losing 2 buyers before they got their act together enough to get an approval letter on the 3rd buyer. During this process, PNC/NC complicated matters tremendously by flopping around on their required amount from one negotiator to the next, then insisting on 25,000. to settle and release the lien. WF refused to give more than 4,000. And we came to a stalemate after PNC closing and re-opening the file 3 times, each time insisting on a complete new financial/hardship pkg. On the 3rd try after was officially 'PNC' (new pkg again- on their form and docs) the negotiator really got things messed up. She negotiated & verbally indicated that they would take an offer of 30% ($15,300.) then after the deal was about to happen and it was time for action and something in writing, she all of a sudden said no they would be requiring the 25,000. after all. She was asked to take it to a higher desk for review, with no avail. So the deal fell through on all sides and was one day shy of foreclosing ( 6 weeks later) and a PNC rep. called practically begging to get that 15,300. offer in writing and we could have a deal.Hurry hurry was the theme ! He sounded very disgruntled at the actions of the final negotiator and wanted a written explanation of what was said in each discussion throughout the whole process submitted with the pkg ....ok... called WF back and got the foreclosure postponed (luckily) and resubmitted ANOTHER complete pkg to PNC and we are awaiting the final acceptance of the offer in writing within the week. (balance of the settlement amount to be provided by the buyer and seller on the HUD) Then now we are in the process of getting the files back open with WF, and that's not the quickest or easiest process. We were lucky the buyers hadn't yet put an offer in on another house and they were still interested. This whole Short Sale has seemed like some crazy nightmare. And it still is pending- not finished by any stretch. does that make your head spin or what? They will play hard ball and if the short sellers have any ability to pay from a line of credit they will want it, no question. You didn't say if the 2nd mortgage is a purchase money loan..and in what state... that makes a big difference on the potentiality of the negotiations. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask...I've been scanning the blogs for anything about PNC (National city) as a 2nd lender- finally found one. Good luck to you....I would love to hear how it goes for you !!!! Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Zia Montesi on
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Hi Jim, I just completed negotiation w / PNC as 2nd Lien Holder [CLC Loan Services for E-Trade] and was able to get our SS approved.
The first thing I did was, although they were looking for at least $6100 on the $61000+- second, I first offered them less than 10%, $1800.00 in the first offer / HUD.
At first while they never said no, just that they knew PNC was looking for $6100 minimum so I went back to the Buyer Agent, asked her to go back to the buyer, explain the situation and ask for a certain amount [you figure how much ] more from the buyer.
Once you are able to get anything more from the buyer, return to the first, plead your case again and ask if they will increase the amount they will allow applied from funds at closing to satisfy / settle the transaction and allow it to close.
You will have to go back to the contract, make the changes in the selling price, or, the buyer can bring the extra to the closing table. Have the B A speak to their attorney and see which way they suggest it is handled.
The lender for the B for my seller wanted the additional $600,00 they contributed added to the AP which in turn increased our commission by a few dollars...something good to point out to the B A or SA, whichever applies.
You must remember to plead your client's case, ask for as much as you feel the situation merits, all they can do is say no!
And then if they do decide how important closing the transaction is to you. As the LA I am not cutting my commission & contributing; I spend far too many hours negotiating for the positive results for all.
Of course when the contract is submitted initially you must request no recourse, no promissory note and pleade their case right from the get-go for whomever you represent.
Most importantly, appreciate the poor souls on the other end of the line when communicating and negotiating, tell them how appreciative you are of their responsibility / care dealing w / your sellers...what a horrid job they have, everyone hates them. zz Short Sale / Foreclosure Resource at the beach here on the Outer Banks of NC
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Permalink Reply by Robert Begley on
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Hi Jim, I saw your last post on the closing of this short sale. My realtor and I are currently dealing with them also on a shortsale with a 54K puchase money HELOC 2nd in Ca.. My question is that were you able to negotiate down to to the 17K without the seller signing the deficiency agreement paperwork? Also, was that 17K on top of whatever the 1st offered?
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Jim-
I would love to know how you are doing with PNC on this second- I am about to take a listing with a large PNC second- How are you doing on it?
Thanks
Liz Rolfe
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Permalink Reply by jim coddington on
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Hi Liz- The deal closed on time. PNC called the customer about 8 times a day up to closing- but we started by offering i think - 5,000 and then moved to just over 13k. All of the additional money came off my real estate commission... showing PNC that the home owner- really didn't have any more money to offer. I think if the bank sees additional increases by the homeowner then they think - possible they will come up even more. We stipulated from the beginning that they could not have a defiency judgement- or they would simple go through foreclosure and bankruptcy (which they would have been forced to do). I have bought a good number of homes from the foreclosure sale... and PNC negiator realized I was correct in saying that they wouldn't have recieved any funds if it went that route. I believe PNC took the best solution for everyone on this deal. Hope that helps.
jim
Liz Rolfe said:Jim-
I would love to know how you are doing with PNC on this second- I am about to take a listing with a large PNC second- How are you doing on it?
Thanks
Liz Rolfe
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Amy,
I felt like I was reading my own story. I was under contract since October 2009 and finally the buyer quit in April. National city/PNC has been awful. They insist on 40%. I won'tgo into the details like you did but it has been very similar. Five complete packages, missed windows of opportunity, blah blah. I don't know when it will end. Very trying trying indeed. best of luck.
Amy Cole said:Hi Jim, I currently have a lot of experience with PNC in regards to a pending short sale going on since July 2009. To put it nicely, they are very inconsistent, and have messed up my deal more than once. They are junior lender on a purchase money loan in a California primary residence with Wells Fargo as the primary lender. House was purchased 4/2007 for 345,000. with 50,000. coming from PNC (National City) Fair market value is 189,000. and it took Wells Fargo losing 2 buyers before they got their act together enough to get an approval letter on the 3rd buyer. During this process, PNC/NC complicated matters tremendously by flopping around on their required amount from one negotiator to the next, then insisting on 25,000. to settle and release the lien. WF refused to give more than 4,000. And we came to a stalemate after PNC closing and re-opening the file 3 times, each time insisting on a complete new financial/hardship pkg. On the 3rd try after was officially 'PNC' (new pkg again- on their form and docs) the negotiator really got things messed up. She negotiated & verbally indicated that they would take an offer of 30% ($15,300.) then after the deal was about to happen and it was time for action and something in writing, she all of a sudden said no they would be requiring the 25,000. after all. She was asked to take it to a higher desk for review, with no avail. So the deal fell through on all sides and was one day shy of foreclosing ( 6 weeks later) and a PNC rep. called practically begging to get that 15,300. offer in writing and we could have a deal.Hurry hurry was the theme ! He sounded very disgruntled at the actions of the final negotiator and wanted a written explanation of what was said in each discussion throughout the whole process submitted with the pkg ....ok... called WF back and got the foreclosure postponed (luckily) and resubmitted ANOTHER complete pkg to PNC and we are awaiting the final acceptance of the offer in writing within the week. (balance of the settlement amount to be provided by the buyer and seller on the HUD) Then now we are in the process of getting the files back open with WF, and that's not the quickest or easiest process. We were lucky the buyers hadn't yet put an offer in on another house and they were still interested. This whole Short Sale has seemed like some crazy nightmare. And it still is pending- not finished by any stretch. does that make your head spin or what? They will play hard ball and if the short sellers have any ability to pay from a line of credit they will want it, no question. You didn't say if the 2nd mortgage is a purchase money loan..and in what state... that makes a big difference on the potentiality of the negotiations. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask...I've been scanning the blogs for anything about PNC (National city) as a 2nd lender- finally found one. Good luck to you....I would love to hear how it goes for you !!!! Thanks.
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Robert, with PNC you have to sign the defiency agreement paperwork just to get it to the next step of having a negotiator assigned, which takes about 10 days from when they get the paper. Its been pretty arduous.Verbally I have been told that PNC will settle in full for $40,000. I owe $100,000 on the HELOC. My third party negotiator, who I later fired and reported to the BBB, was unable to get anything better and claimed PNC is the worst in the country. I could have closed in December if PNC was not so difficult. They're very shifty and won't put things in writing. They are full of surprises. By the time I got some success with them, my first lender short sale package expired again. Hard to sync up. Actually its been a nightmare. However, I have a feelingthey are finally getting their program together. I just got another offer and am trying again. Good luck and best wishes.
Robert Begley said:Hi Jim, I saw your last post on the closing of this short sale. My realtor and I are currently dealing with them also on a shortsale with a 54K puchase money HELOC 2nd in Ca.. My question is that were you able to negotiate down to to the 17K without the seller signing the deficiency agreement paperwork? Also, was that 17K on top of whatever the 1st offered?
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Amy: I'm going through the same hoops you've gone through. I email all the requested docs to the negotiator on 7-30 and find out this AM that they've closed the file because the docs were requested. I sent them the same day requested. First sale date is now set for the 26th next week. Does anyone have supervors or management names up the line at PNC?
Gordon
Amy Cole said:Hi Jim, I currently have a lot of experience with PNC in regards to a pending short sale going on since July 2009. To put it nicely, they are very inconsistent, and have messed up my deal more than once. They are junior lender on a purchase money loan in a California primary residence with Wells Fargo as the primary lender. House was purchased 4/2007 for 345,000. with 50,000. coming from PNC (National City) Fair market value is 189,000. and it took Wells Fargo losing 2 buyers before they got their act together enough to get an approval letter on the 3rd buyer. During this process, PNC/NC complicated matters tremendously by flopping around on their required amount from one negotiator to the next, then insisting on 25,000. to settle and release the lien. WF refused to give more than 4,000. And we came to a stalemate after PNC closing and re-opening the file 3 times, each time insisting on a complete new financial/hardship pkg. On the 3rd try after was officially 'PNC' (new pkg again- on their form and docs) the negotiator really got things messed up. She negotiated & verbally indicated that they would take an offer of 30% ($15,300.) then after the deal was about to happen and it was time for action and something in writing, she all of a sudden said no they would be requiring the 25,000. after all. She was asked to take it to a higher desk for review, with no avail. So the deal fell through on all sides and was one day shy of foreclosing ( 6 weeks later) and a PNC rep. called practically begging to get that 15,300. offer in writing and we could have a deal.Hurry hurry was the theme ! He sounded very disgruntled at the actions of the final negotiator and wanted a written explanation of what was said in each discussion throughout the whole process submitted with the pkg ....ok... called WF back and got the foreclosure postponed (luckily) and resubmitted ANOTHER complete pkg to PNC and we are awaiting the final acceptance of the offer in writing within the week. (balance of the settlement amount to be provided by the buyer and seller on the HUD) Then now we are in the process of getting the files back open with WF, and that's not the quickest or easiest process. We were lucky the buyers hadn't yet put an offer in on another house and they were still interested. This whole Short Sale has seemed like some crazy nightmare. And it still is pending- not finished by any stretch. does that make your head spin or what? They will play hard ball and if the short sellers have any ability to pay from a line of credit they will want it, no question. You didn't say if the 2nd mortgage is a purchase money loan..and in what state... that makes a big difference on the potentiality of the negotiations. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask...I've been scanning the blogs for anything about PNC (National city) as a 2nd lender- finally found one. Good luck to you....I would love to hear how it goes for you !!!! Thanks.
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Thanks for all the info
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Permalink Reply by JulieAnn DeCeunynck on
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Just starting one myself with a 1st @ PNC and 2nd PNC (national city)
Only thing I have experienced is that they are not too willing to forgive debt, they are offering up promissory notes all day long..
good luck to both of us! let me know how it goes please!
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Permalink Reply by Terri Flight on
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This is months after other discusisons, but my experiences are the same. I am negotiating a PNC Bank 2nd of approx 93,000 balance. It took from June 6th to Dec 23 2010 to get the short sale approval from the 1st - Bank of America. What fun. We had ongoing verbal negotiations with PNC in the Summer that started at 30% balance as a payment with no further seller liability. We got to them hinting at a 10,0000 payment for the same, but they would not continue negotiations until we had approval on the 1st. We kept intouch, and after BOA approval at Xmas time, we resubmitted to PNC (they required it). Were told in 10 days we would be negotiating and would be able to settle a few weeks ago. Here we are in Feb, and have gone from $55k down to $37k from the seller to release liability, or $5k and they won't. We have asked for assistance from our Congressman, who helped on the 1st trust approval. Now have a SS attorney on board. PNC gave the attorney's office a bad fax number (we highly suspect NOT by mistake - be forewarned of this trick), and they refuse access to managers (PNC doesn't deem our problem of sufficient importance).We are now still trying to get the $$ amount down to manageable. And my seller is very pro active and on the ball. Needless to say during this time frame we have not kept any original buyers, and are struggling to hold this contract together. The other agent thinks we are misleading him and the buyer since we recount what PNC says they'll do, and then report what they actually do. This is the short version. They clearly have the debt collector mentality and play hardball until the end.
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Permalink Reply by Patti Lyles on
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PNC is the worst...do you need anymore evidence than what you read on these posts?
Sean Cimilluca said:Robert, with PNC you have to sign the defiency agreement paperwork just to get it to the next step of having a negotiator assigned, which takes about 10 days from when they get the paper. Its been pretty arduous.Verbally I have been told that PNC will settle in full for $40,000. I owe $100,000 on the HELOC. My third party negotiator, who I later fired and reported to the BBB, was unable to get anything better and claimed PNC is the worst in the country. I could have closed in December if PNC was not so difficult. They're very shifty and won't put things in writing. They are full of surprises. By the time I got some success with them, my first lender short sale package expired again. Hard to sync up. Actually its been a nightmare. However, I have a feelingthey are finally getting their program together. I just got another offer and am trying again. Good luck and best wishes.
Robert Begley said:Hi Jim, I saw your last post on the closing of this short sale. My realtor and I are currently dealing with them also on a shortsale with a 54K puchase money HELOC 2nd in Ca.. My question is that were you able to negotiate down to to the 17K without the seller signing the deficiency agreement paperwork? Also, was that 17K on top of whatever the 1st offered?
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