let me begin by saying "I" too am a licensed realtor but i don't specialize in shortsales or traditional home sales. i respect the profession and ppl who behave professionally. which is why it BURNS ME that this idiot did this!!
i am the 'buyer' on a shortsale prop in weston, florida and we recently got the bank acceptance letter after 8-month wait. the title company prepares a prelim-HUD for me and i see several fees which look questionable. turns out the realtor snuck in a $3200 fee to HIMSELF under a vague company name when all along he said this fee was charged by the Title Company to compensate them for the shortsale processing. title company says nope that they do not charge a fee to do all the work (continually calling the banks, submitting everything through equator, negotiating, etc). bottom line: realtor never disclosed fee was for him or his company. but i signed an addendum agreeing to it (thinking it was for title company.) p.s. did i also mention i gave up my 3% commission to compensate him for the time-intensive nature of shortsales? he didn't want the bank to reduce the 6% so he listed another agent in his office as buyer's agent on the contract and the bank approved his full 6% commission. but he is still so greedy he tries to stick it to me for an extra $3200? so realtors what say you? i obviously don't want to pay it and emailed him a letter letting him have it. he has not replied yet. i want to NAIL HIM TO THE WALL on sheer principle alone. what do you think? what legal recourse do i have? file complaint against him with FREC and governing agency of mortgage brokers? (he has both licenses). is this a legal issue? an ethics violation? a criminal matter? any help would be appreciated. |
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hey satar someone always has to ruin the party huh? lol
i'm sure that other agent means well she just gets too emotional and can't focus on the issue or goal.
gee, reminds me of me on my first post here. i was out for blood. but through helpful advice from people like yourself you helped me see that sometimes 'diplomacy' works better than 'threats & yelling' to get your goals achieved...even when you are so upset you cannot see straight. in my case that has certainly proven the best approach so far but i'm not above calling the agent's broker if he digs his heals in and refuses to honor his word to the sellers.
i have spent the last hour re-reading all 100+ posts to get reacquainted with all the advice and guidance from everyone. you are right in that i forget i am a licensed agent and can get broker's agency to pay my agency the $3k. have to admit i hadn't thought of that. i still think i'd prefer it on the hud, unless it creates an issue with my lender.
i think tomorrow i'm going to email realtor and in a diplomatic fashion ask him to give me a $3K credit from his commissions so that i will have extra monies to purchase the spa and appliances, etc that i need for my new home...like he had suggested early in the negotiations (i have emails from him). further, that his willingness to help out will help me in my new home and will help the sellers also who are down on their luck. i'd also like to tell him that in order to proceed with this sale i need to know by X time tomorrow. (the deadline is so he doesnt continue to dilly dally...and it may be when i call his broker and ask her to step in and help fix the problem.)
i spoke to sellers on phone today at length so they would ok me trying to get the $3k on my side of the hud. they were fine with it and are so frustrated with the process and this realtor. they also asked about post occupancy and i briefly told them i'd know more tomorrow but that my house may be going under contract and that i may have to leave asap but i would try to work out something that would be good for both of us.
now the question is how to expand on that?? my husband thinks i should avoid giving specifics and just say something like 'we cannot afford to stay in the house after closing..we have to move right away' but that seems weird to me. any ideas?
p.s. i called seller's moving company and they told me that they would agree to hold their furniture in storage for a week for FREE ! i will also mention this to them. (btw, YES, i got your point about why i can't use the lawyer as an excuse..bc this is another example of how i've also solved their problem for them). ;D
They mean well. I am one of the coolest and calmest person you'll ever meet. In our business, when someone doesn't understand an issue or a situation, they are quick to claim fraud. I am involved in a short sale flip situation right now that almost all the players have bailed and I am the only one still around (so I am either a brave soul or a moron!). The buyer's agent (A to B) is so scared he called and told me he is cancelled his agency relationship with the buyer. So I am the only agent involved in an A to B and a B to C and pretty soon C to D flip! Hopefully another agent steps in to represent D!
I was lucky in that I had the best short sale training and information. However, I decided to get licensed because all the training I had was to take advantage of the homeowner. So I got licensed and developed a short sale system that is a hybrid model of the investor and agent model. As soon as I got licensed, the market tanked two months later and I was a fish in water. Anyway to answer your questions:
1. I would call the agent, do not e-mail. You do not want anything in writing about any possible money going to sellers. Deadline is great, but give the guy a day at least.
2. Husband is correct. Keep it simple. The more info you give, the more they will try to find a solution for you so they can stay. You being forced to move is great. Explain how stressed you are with the move and how nice it is that someone like the sellers can relate to you. Avoid using the term "house" or "home" with the sellers, instead use "property".
3. Keep positive about everyone involved. As easy it is to talk bad about the listing agent, do not do so. If there are any negative feelings expressed, let it come from the sellers.
4. Your lender will not have an issue with the 3k. It's no different than the seller making that contribution and it is minimal. Another option to keep it on the HUD is to have the listing agent credit the $2800 that you were going to pay towards the seller's lien release.
5. Chances are the listing agent's broker is going to take the listing agent's side on this. The fact that he/she contacted you about who's idea it was for the spa tells me that that broker already knows what's going on and is prying to see if you have anything to do with how this transaction is being handled regarding the seller's attitude. Approaching the broker will need to be done in a careful manner.
6. The appliances and bill of sale is legal, always was. However, it can't be related to the sale of the property. In other words, you can't make the purchase of the appliances contingent on the purchase of the property. It has to be a separate and independent agreement. That's why it is a waste of time. Just make a verbal agreement.
If Bryant decides he no longer likes this topic to be discussed or upgrades his Smite button to a functional button which has rainbows and happy faces, feel free to contact me via e-mail at satarnag@amirifinancial.com.
"I am one of the coolest and calmest person you'll ever meet" ---> i agree wholeheartedly. that is one of the most important tools as a negotiator.... (did you ever see that movie The Negotiator i think its called with Kevin Spacey?) especially when you are dealing with very emotional sellers and buyers (like me)! lol ahhh those crazy ppl. lol
your short sale flip situation sounds like it would drive me to drink. i think in these unchartered waters and in times of market uncertainty being a negotiator is a highly specialized & coveted profession. Of course i realize this only now that i'm embedded in it.
Thank you again for your help satar!
To clarify a few points:
1. I'd really hate to have to call the shady agent. i know i'm trying to use diplomacy here but i have not spoken to him and only communicate via email since i discovered the bogus fee. I'm considering calling his broker instead. I don't think she is aware of anything going on. I have never communicated with her. It wasnt her, but the agent himself that sent me the email about the sellers trying to sell him the spa.
I was thinking of fwd'ing the agent early emails he had sent me asking me if i was interested in purchasing appliances from sellers. I could say something like, as my agent you can credit me $3k in commissions on the HUD to help me out because i need appliances for my new home -- just like you suggested i do in these earlier emails.
what say you?
2. also, i wrote the sellers a short while ago regarding staying past closing. tried to keep it simple and very diplomatic. I explained my personal reason for not being able to do post occupancy and outlined our recent costs with something like, 'i'm glad i have someone that can relate...like you, we are financially strapped. we have had to pay for X, X, X, X related to this purchase. We can't do post occupancy but maybe we can help each other. i need appliances. can you sell me X and X. I even called your moving company and negotiated for them to give you free services and reduced cost of x and x."
So, now waiting to hear back from them and trying to figure out what to do about the shady realtor.
STOP! Enough said already. over 100 comments on this story is insane!
YOU are a Realtor/Buyer involved in some shadey stuff here- which points a finger at you as well dear Arod.
You give your commission away allowing the Listing Brokerage to obtain 6%-who YOU willingly allow to Represent YOU in a dual agency...and say you did it because YOU don't understand short sales. Umm- come on Arod....You don't have to understand short sales to be a buyer of one- you are not the one negotiating the sale...The Lister does. Had you asked for the 3% commission in the FIRST place to the lister (if you were an active Realtor) there would be no issue with receiving those funds.
There are missing pieces to this story here that you are not disclosing.
The Designated Broker is YOUR Rep in which YOU never spoke with in 8 months? (shake/cock head here) point finger at Arod. YOU were told by the Lister that the DB would now be YOUR Buyers Rep and YOU NEVER spoke with her once in 8 months. ( ghasp)
Seller was told by YOUR designated Realtor Seller would get a( kick back) compensated of $3K...for whatever -is still a kick back.
I personally do not think you are for real. (appology if I'm rude- but umm, come on Arod !)
If this is a fact that You have been represented as a BUYER by THE Designated Broker on this transaction, and what you have stated in all these responces to 100 posts are true. YOU ALL are in deep s%$t. You staying away from communication with YOUR own Rep- the DB states alot! The fact the the DB never communicated with you on HER transaction is ( caugh-choke) a huge violation of statutes.
I would do one of 2 things:
(1.) Walk into the DB's office and ask HER how she is going to get her ass out of hot water and make this close...... ( open purse baby and deal the cash out DB!) .or..
(2.) Cancel the deal and head straight to the Florida Dept of Real Estate to file numerous violations of statutes.
Hire a RE Lawyer to get compensated from the Brokerage who represented you so badly and ILLEGALLY!
One has to still wonder- 'what' you are hiding here by not speaking with the DB....in 8 months who is representing YOU.
I agree, 100 comments is a lot.
okay, so i appreciate the spanking and that you are still suspicious of my motives but you seem to be stuck on the fact that i have never spoken to the DB. why would i? the DB was never representing me. i hired the listing agent and he is the one that handled the whole transaction. The DB was listed in name only. I am not hiding anything. i'm being completely transparent on these boards so i can get legitimate advice. I absolutely do not understand shortsales so how can i represent myself? it would be self-defeating. besides i know short sales are time-intensive and i truly wanted to compensate the agent handling it. what's wrong with that?
I think your point is that it is wrong/illegal for me to have agreed to let an agent represent me that really wasnt?? Am i correct? You may want to peruse the many threads on this forum about agents double-ending their commission. they share a different opinion that you do. everything is not so black and white. remember the BROKERAGE gets paid not the agent.
Believe it or not, this scenario is very common. In fact, everything the listing agent is doing I would do, except I would do it in a different way so not to cause so many problems.
I think the key aspect of Arod's issue that you are missing is that she is acting as a principal in this matter as her expertise and her own broker's expertise are not in residential resales nor are they in short sales. I bet she thought she could secure the transaction (as she did) if she approached the listing agent directly. The listing agent used his own broker as the buyer's agent so that he can maximize the commission allocated by the foreclosing lender.
Like many other people who fall prey to a short sale listing agent who acts in dual capacity, she is left with no one she can trust or has a vested interest in this matter to guide her.
Her goal is to get the property without being a door mat and to protect her own interests.
If anything, the listing agent owes shortsalesuperstars.com a paycheck!
satar, i know you are not attorney but i appreciate all the advice you have given me throughout this nightmarish ordeal.
you have really helped me because as you know i have been on my own here since i really dont have a broker i can consult.
"If anything, the listing agent owes shortsalesuperstars.com a paycheck!" ----> i agree with you and in fact if you were located in florida i would have tried to hire you to represent me on this deal to closing! as it is, i already did hire an attorney who told me i can give the sellers a bill of sale to try and purchase appliances from them. :D
update: good news! after I didnt answer his calls again yesterday he finally responded in writing to my email saying: there was "confusion" and "a misunderstanding" about the $3200 charge. that's about as much as he would admit in writing.
then he writes: "in the interest of customer satisfaction I will agree to remove the fee, though many of the services have already been rendered, as a courtesy to you, if you agree to close as otherwise agreed and without objection."
this was my goal and objective and i couldnt have done it without the help of these boards.. and especially help from Satar Naghshineh who helped me draft my letter to him. THANK YOU!
i'm thinking of responding to his email with something like: "Once the fee is removed, we can move forward and I will agree to close as agreed and without objection. Also, to avoid any issues in the future I ask that all communication from this point forward be made through email or text."
what say you??
Wow, this guy is a great negotiator. Even when he surrenders he is trying to negotiate the ending of the transaction! Good job on winning!
Just reply with a short and simple "thank you for your understanding in resolving this matter". That way you acknowledge his acceptance and you don't promise anything in return. Then forward his e-mail to title and have them remove the charge on the HUD.
No need to have all communication in e-mail statement. You only use that when you are about to get a lawyer involved.
Once this is closed and you have keys in your hand, then you can do whatever you want. Just be patient and do not reveal any of your aces that you have in your back pocket.
Congrats again. His e-mail tells me that he knew he was in the wrong and could get in trouble.
i called the florida realtors free legal hotline today and they werent much help. they sympathized with me and said he broke all sort of ethic rules through deceptive and misleading practices..etc.. but i had a legal question and he skirted around it b/c i think he really wasnt sure.
so maybe someone here knows...
Does an agent in a florida real estate transaction have a DUTY TO DISCLOSE his affiliations or relationship with a company seeking to to be compensated in a real estate transaction?
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