2 Offers Submitted to Equator for SS - the LA Really Screwed Up
I'm the buyer on a Short property in Kirkland WA. Long story short, the property had been listed for over 3 months with no activity, my agent was drafting our offer when the property went pending SS in our MLS. We talked to the LA and he said that he felt the offer was low and had yet to submit it to the 3rd party negotiator (even though he already updated the MLS?) and told us to draft an offer and gave us a net value to meet, which we thought was fair. We did so, although our offer had a back-up addendum. I was able to track down the negotiator and he confirmed he was only working with OUR offer with the lenders/investors. Some time between days 30 and 60, the original offer was also forwarded to the negotiator and he was instructed to upload that into Equator. Every discussion on this forum answers that question with 'only work with one offer at a time'. Since the LA and seller have decided to do that anyway, I have no idea what to expect. I am told by the negotiator that the offers are nearly identical - the other party is a single guy and ours for a married couple.
This gets really messy because the language in our back-up addendum states it (the addendum, not the offer) expires after 60 days, which has come to pass. According to this forum, isn't it impossible to upload multiple offers into Equator? My agent is trying to verify.
Any thoughts would be welcome here!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Payne on
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You can not initiate more than one offer in equator on the property. Most likely the listing agent uploaded the other offer in the library on equator for the negotiator to see.
The part that gets confusing is this. Which offer was accepted by the seller? Did the seller accept both offers? Which offer was accepted first by the seller?
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Permalink Reply by Michael McLaughlin on
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Both offers are contractually accepted by the seller. The other offer is supposedly dated earlier than mine, however, all indications are that my offer was the first to be forwarded to the negotiator and attached to the property in Equator, I would have to assume. We think the LA received both signed offer agreements at roughly the same time, but only forwarded my offer to the negotiator initially as he felt it was stronger. The other buyer's agent probably pressured him to forward their original offer after several weeks had gone by having thought their offer was going to the negotiator when in fact it did not. It looks like the LA has created a huge mess by advancing two legitimate contracts.
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How can a seller sell their home to two buyers? Where is your agent and what is your agent doing about it? Did your agent pre qualify this listing and this listing agent before you saw the property? I can only assume that the negotiator is not the listing agent, it is a 3rd party negotiator? Why would a 3rd party negotiator send in more than one offer to the bank? Was there anything in your contract that said all other offers would be placed in a back up position?
Who is the lender?
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Permalink Reply by Julissa Jumper on
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Yes, that sounds foul to me!
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How can a seller sell their home to two buyers? Good question. Where is your agent and what is your agent doing about it? She's talking to Equator, the negotiator (who has been professional) and the LA (who has been extremely unprofessional), Did your agent pre qualify this listing and this listing agent before you saw the property? No, the listing itself is qualified in my mind, just the agent seems unqualified and misinformed. I can only assume that the negotiator is not the listing agent, it is a 3rd party negotiator? Correct - 2/3 of his fee are from myself and my agent, the remaining third from the LA) Why would a 3rd party negotiator send in more than one offer to the bank? Because he was instructed to do so by the LA who is paying 1/3 of his fee. For what it is worth, the negotiator is not pleased about that. Was there anything in your contract that said all other offers would be placed in a back up position? My contract has a 38A back-up addendum, but that addendum was due to expire after 60 days, which it has. Furthermore, my contract was the first contract submitted to the lenders; the other offer didn't get to the negotiator until a few weeks thereafter.
Who is the lender?
BECU first who sold to GMAC, and Chase 2nd
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Ok how is your agent talking to Equator? Equator is a system that is used to process short sales and without having the listing agents username and password and authorization from the seller, you agent can not talk to "equator".
Qualifying a listing is something that an experienced short sale buyer agent does to make a determination if the listing has a chance to get approved. The listing agents qualifications is a MAJOR part of this and should never be overlooked.
You say the 3rd party negotiator is a professional and yet they still sent in two offers to the lender?
Sorry to be harsh but trying to figure this out to be able to help
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By talking to Equator I mean talking to their support group to inquire if it is even possible to work with 2 offers within that system.
I'm not a realtor myself but I trust my agent and her staff and frankly my own ability to investigate and ensure integrity in the process. As a buyer, I am not going to pass up on a home I like just because I don't trust the listing agent - that doesn't make sense to me and would not be relevant in my decision to put an offer on a home. Price and value wise, the negoriator has eyes on the BPOS, the CMA, seller's deficiency and both offers - nobody party to this is worried about the numbers not lining up and we'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it.
I believe this is the first time the LA has enlisted this particular negotiator - they work in the same office building. I understand the negotiator's position, since he needs to keep on eye on his future business pipeline, and the negotiator can't do anything about the fact that the LA and seller entered into 2 conflicting contracts. I don't see how he is in a position to put a stop to that.
My concern is what that investors will think of this. I do know that they are analyzing my offer against their BPO. I do not know if they have seen the other offer I am TOLD that they have, but this seems impossible given how Equator works. If they have somehow seen the other offer (I think they can request to other offers through Equator?), I don't know if/how they would evaluate both and if the dates on the offer come into play, if the backup addendum will come into play, if will actually notice that tha backup addendum has expired,....
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Equator is just a platform and their support group can do nothing for the agent. I work in equator every day with REO and short sales and talk to their support regularly. I had a file that the negotiator could not read an attachment in equator but could outside of equator and their support could not help with that. They are there for issues with the website but not to help with short sale issues.
Again, I don't think that you want to hear me.......I am not bashing your agent. There are alot of variables to a short sale outside of the home itself. The listing agent is a very vital part of the process and interviewing that agent will reveal certain red flags. One question we ask is how do you handle multiple offers? What happens if you get another offer after ours is accepted. VERY important questions, if these questions had been asked, you may not be in this situation. We also ask qualifying questions about the sellers hardship, the lender, the investor etc. Without knowing certain things, a buyer agent is not representing the buyers best interest in my opinion.
The negotiator is the one that uploaded both offers, correct? I can not speak for the negotiator but I know some 3rd party negotiators on this site that would NOT have sent in both offers to the lender regardless. I negotiate my own files and know that a seller can only accept one offer and know that the lender is not party to the contract and does not dictate the offer that gets submitted.
GMAC uses equator platform, I have done plenty of them in Equator and it is possible to upload the new offer but not possible to initiate two separate offers in equator. The negotiator at GMAC might look at both offers and pick the one that they think is the better offer. They wont care what the dates are on the offer and wont care which one was first, if they do process them further they will obviously accept the better offer.
Who is the investor? Did the second mortgage also get both offers?
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I understand your points about qualifying the listing agent - in retrospect it would have been a good thing to have done. However, even if his answers didn't inspire confidence, I still would have pursued that house, so that is water under the bridge.
The negotiator's decision to upload both offers was probably not the right thing to do, but that is also water under the bridge and I appreciate his dilemma. Nothing I can do about that now.
Good to hear that they don't care about order or dates. GMAC is the investor on the first - BECU was the original lender and they have approved my offer forward to GMAC. I do not know exactly where the other offer is in the process since mine had several week's head start, although I don't know enough about the process to figure if that is relevant or not. Chase is the second mortgage - I don't know who the investor is but I know they are mostly Fannie, Freddie or that slice and dice fund or whatever that is called and the negotiator has told me Chase isn't difficult to deal with in this case.
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Michael... hate to keep being harsh but knowing the investor is short sale 101 for sure and at the very least the person negotiating the short sale should be able to find out. I doubt that Fannie or Freddie are the investor on a second.
GMAC is most likely the servicer on the first. If they actually own the paper, I have found that GMAC is easy and you will have a very fast approval. Chase is also very easy to deal with if they are the investor. You would want to know if the loan has the dreaded MI on it. ALot of Chase seconds that we deal with have MI and that is another layer.
One last question, do you know which offer NETS more, yours or the other?
Glad to hear that you are OK with going into a deal without all of the facts and OK with the listing agent and negotiator not really knowing what they are doing and I really do hope that it all works out for you.
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Permalink Reply by Kimberley Kelly on
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I have had only one offer of mine (I had the Buyer) be submitted with another offer at the same time. I thought the List Agent was crazy and still do. Nobody called me, but I found out 2 weeks later that my offer had been accepted "over the other one" and we "have an approval letter!" All is going well, but no idea what went on with Agent and Chase.
Bryant is correct: Stay away from inexperienced List Agents in Short Sales. I tried that one a couple weeks ago, and it was a disaster. The List Agent actually told me he had increased the List Price "due to the negotiator telling him to"..I don't even know if he ever even contacted the bank! Very frustrating..home still sits..
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Again...it would be great if I had all of this information about the LA, investor, all of that on the front end...but I don't see how not having that information would be a reason to not pursue the house. I cannot control any of that information, so it does not change how much the house is worth in my mind and is not relevant at this point - these are historical issues.
I'm not sure of the difference between investor or servicer - I do know that BECU is on record in our MLS are originating the first, and whatever their stake is today, the decision currently is in the hands of GMAC. Chase is also on record in the MLS as the originator of the second - they have probably portfoliod this mortgage to my understanding.
This seems to be a matter of opinion but I personally don't think the competency of the listing agent should be a factor in searching for a primary residence. It can make things easier or more difficult and that will show up in the process, but the facts of the situation are that we have a seller accepted offer in front of the lenders/investors for their approval.My goal in this discussion was to figure out the legality behind what has transpired for tort implications, as well as how the banks will treat this scenario and I appreciate the opinions I have received on those issues, but the rest of it is simply not relevant as nothing can be done about it at this point.
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