have the right to know how many liens on the seller's property? My agent says no, but everything I read seems to indicate otherwise.

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You have to know how many liens are on the property. This should be a question you ask when you do the initial paperwork with your client. When I first started this years ago, I made the mistake of not asking. When we received the approval and just before closing title of course shows a mechanics lien for 100,000. Title will show liens, but in my experience title isn't normally pulled until after the approval and that's not when you want any suprises.

THANK YOU ALL for your help!!  You have all helped to enlighten me immensely,,,,,I only wish I had sought this help months ago.  I would have been more knowledgable early on, and not after 5 months of feeling totally in the dark.  Anyway, I am going to refer my agent (and maybe through her, the listing agent) to this site.  It sounds like agents benefit from this site, I know I sure did as a buyer!! Thanks again all!!

 

Sharon

(even though this short sale b.s. is so tough on me mentally, I really feel for the sellers who are in such a position......

Liens are public record. You can research them yourself or through a service. If you are involved in a short sale purchase, due diligence is a very important factor in your buying decision.

Of course you do. You don't wait 3 months to find out that there are extra liens. Do like the pros, use the 3 months to get the problem solved. All the best to you!

I'm not licensed in your state, but I can tell you that if I have a buyer considering a short sale, I ask about the liens before they even write the offer. If the listing agent isn't forthcoming, I advise my buyer to move on.  Then again, the only time I've had a listing agent refuse to tell how many liens and who holds them, there was a 'third party negotiator' involved. It would be good to know if that's the case with the house you're looking at.  You may not need to know this info in a regular sale, but short sales are difficult and you need to know everything.

I'm not licensed there eather. Liens are public records, you may not know the detailes depending on the state, but you can know who claims an intrest in all states.

 

Why bid with with your head in a box?

 

Bill

Good Question NJ Buyer:  You have the right to know anything that is public knowledge. And Krystal is right, Your Attorney will do a title search and you should always buy Owners Title Insurance to protect your downpayment investment. If you are trying to see how many liens to know how quickly it will close, your Buyers Agent should be able to help you with that. If the home is a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac Insured Loan and they are the ultimate Investor for the short sale approval, The Listing agent for the property just needs to go to www.fanniemae.com/loanlookup  or www.Freddiemac.com/loanlookup and you put the address in and it will tell you which it is. Freddie will require the last 4 digets of the Sellers SS#. Then if the Listing agent has any problems with the Bank/Servicer the Listing agent can call 1-800-Fannie and report that the Servicer/Bank is not responding and the home could go back into Fannie or Freddie Inventory. They don't want to have that happen. Also go to www.Homepath.com those are the Fannie Mae Inventory. You can get a quick and good buyer there too. Good Luck. I'm a CDPE, Certified Distressed Property Expert. I sell in Charleston, SC

OF course is your right to know.  And being an agent, that information is not only easy for him to get (less than 1 minute on property profile free account that his title company provides for him) but it would be convenient for him to let you know, what type of negotiating monster are you facing...  You would want to know if there is one or two lenders, or even additional liens or other things...  Well, I thing that his answers is far from honest, misleading and not well informative.  He may just want to hide the lien information trying to steer you to a particular deal.  

I always let my clients know even if they ask or not.  and If they ask, I will find out If I haven't done already...

 

good luck!

 

I am not from NJ but in our state the attorneys normally order title. If the attorneys don't order title in your state than try and contact the title company on file. If your agent wants to get involved than that would be helpful and somewhat expected. I assume you are being represented by an attorney. Have the attorney ask for title information, this is usually pretty easy for them to obtain. In this case your attorney might be the best resource. If you get information from them regarding the liens you will need to do some other follow up to protect your interests.

It has happened in rare cases that liens pop up on title shortly before closing. For example, Home Owner Association fees that aren't being paid which is common in Short Sales. This might not have been recorded yet but they may pop up right before closing and if the amount was not considered when negotiating the Short Sale it could kill the deal or they will require you to pay for them. Other common liens would be water, grass cutting liens etc.

 

If the negotiator / listing agent etc. is doing their due diligence most of this should be considered and not be a problem. Even the most competent professionals are caught off guard if full disclosure is not giving to them when listing the property but it doesn't happen often. 


I would however caution you to believe the fact that the number of liens is an indication on knowing whether or not you will be successful at getting the Short Sale completed. Obviously the more liens you have the more work it will be for the person negotiating the file. It's more accurate to analyze the type of liens and learn about the investors who hold them. Without actually having experience with this it would be difficult to figure that out though. I have had an easier time with two lien properties vs. a single mortgage lien with PMI. I pretty much get them all closed but sometimes the lien holders don't make that an easy task.

 

Anyway, just make sure you have a competent professional representing you. The unfortunate part is that being on the buyers end, you and your buyers agent are pretty much at the mercy of the listing agents / attorney ability to close Short Sales. If your not patient you will be highly discouraged throughout the process. 

 

And to address the point of the contract. It's a contract once the buyer and seller signs. If you don't have a signed copy from the seller than is sounds like you don't have an agreed upon contract. The only position the bank lien holder is to approve or disapprove of the lost and costs they are willing to incur. They technically are not a principal to the contract so they will not sign it. They will only issue a letter stating their position. Check with your attorney as I don't know the laws pertaining to Real Estate law in your state. This is just general information pertaining the general Short Sales. 

 

Best of luck!

Of course you have a right to know. If the seller is not forthcoming, then you can walk away. As you noted in a later response, it makes a difference in terms of whether you want to waste your time making an offer. Multiple liens invariably complicate the short sale process and usually cause the approval to take longer.

 

Liens are a matter of public record so there is no reason for the seller to try to conceal them from anyone. 

 

John Cleek, Ph.D.

Regardless of right to know and despite the ability to look it up on your own the listing agent should tell you how many liens, who they're with, and the details of the team they use to gain approval. This is a partnership between buyer and seller. BTW, I applaud you for your empathy for the seller. I've had buyers of my short sales sit accross the table with a 3 carat ring on their finger complaining because the stove has one burner that doesn't work - how insensitive!

Good luck with the sale!

Nate



Joetta Fort said:
I'm not licensed in your state, but I can tell you that if I have a buyer considering a short sale, I ask about the liens before they even write the offer. If the listing agent isn't forthcoming, I advise my buyer to move on.  Then again, the only time I've had a listing agent refuse to tell how many liens and who holds them, there was a 'third party negotiator' involved. It would be good to know if that's the case with the house you're looking at.  You may not need to know this info in a regular sale, but short sales are difficult and you need to know everything.
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Hi Joetta,
Yes, I believe this is a case of a third party negotiator being involved.  This would be the seller's atty I believe.  They seem to be part of the lengthy delay.  Not sure who is worse in this case the bank or the atty.....
Thanks,
SHaron 

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