Banks hiring contractors to break in to listings
Hi All,
I have a short sale listing in Minnesota and the bank that I am working with (Selene Finance) and they have hired Meridian Asset Services to help negotiate the offer when one comes in. I find out that either Selene or Meridian hired another company to break in to my listing knowing full well that it was secure and that utilities were still being paid for by the sellers. The property is vacant. This company drilled through the deadbolt, cut off my lockbox, and changed the lock on the front door.
A representative from Meridian is also calling each of my sellers on a daily basis and telling them to cancel the listing contract with me and that she has another realtor lined up to take over.
There has been no sheriff's sale yet so it is not bank owned.
Any suggestions on what I or my sellers can do about this? I have reported the breaking and entering to the sheriff so far but I want to do more and so do my sellers. This is such unethical behavior I just can't stand it and want to fight back. Please offer any suggestions!
Thanks,
Carolyn
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kieran Jackson on
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Hey Alyce,
The people to go after are the ones making the calls to her clients, not the other realtors. I'm ALMOST positive the bank, or the banks vendors are NOT doing this per the instructor of the reraltor they want to replace her with!
All the best,
~Kieran~
Alyce Nelson said:Once you have agent names this becomes a different matter and you can take it to your Board of Realtors and State Licensing Board. Most states have strict laws against this sort of activity. Seems like the SAG's office is a dead end for you that you need a venue that is more passionate about the violations… like the Lic Brd and the Brd of Realtors
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And theoretically, a house with a listing agent, and a lockbox, that is secure, does NOT fit into that definition!
However, I'm not trying get into a debate over legal terms. Save that for the lawyers. A locked door, is a locked door. It means if you don't have the key... STAY OUT. The (key word) OWNER has the right to hire someone to break locks, and replace them. not the lender. If the property is unsecure, then the lender should secure it.
That is why in certain states the bank has to go thru the courts to get possession of the asset. The bank cannot, on it's own, determine when they can come change locks on someone else's property. The judge makes that determination.
Harry Clay said:According to the legal definition of Vacant, I suspect Kieran's statement is incorrect:
vacant adjective bare, blank, clear, depleted, devoid, disengaged, empty, exhausted, free, hollow, idle, not in use, not occupied, open, unemployed, uninhabited, unoccupied, unpossessed, untenanted, unused, unutilized, vacuous, vacuus, void
Kieran Jackson said:If you have an agent, with a listing, and there is a lockbox on that property... uhhh... IT AINT VACANT!
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Permalink Reply by Elaine Cooper on
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This happened to me on my first short sale listing 3 years ago. And yes unfortunately they have the legal right to secure their assett. In my case the contractor called me and left me a key. He changed the lock and left me the key. The home was luckily vacant at the time. He entered and took photos. It doesn't seem right - but unfortunatley I think the lender is just exercising their legal right. In my case the short sale was successful.
Elaine
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Permalink Reply by Thom Colby CA Brkr 888-391-5245 on
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Although none of us like what's happening, the issue lies between the homeowner / borrower and the lender. So many agents get themselves into the middle of these issues.
We (agents) do not have any "control" over the property - we are simply the agent listing the property.
I had a similar situation in CA, where a soon-to-be single mom was in the hospital for an extended period just prior to giving birth to triplets. Her husband had walked-away from her, and took pretty much everything. During that time, BofA ordered a BPO, the BPO agent (innocently) reported the property as vacant - because it looked that way after dead-beat dad took off. BofA changed the locks. "Mom" went home with 3 new babies only to find a house she could no longer get access to. This was NOT good. We got some politicians and the media involved and it got resolved.
At the end of the day, I think the bigger issue is whomever is trying to get the listing cancelled and re-assigned to another agent. Focus the energy on that issue.
Thom Colby
Broker
Newport Beach CA
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Permalink Reply by Platinum Worldwide Realty, LLC on
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I have had it happen to me several times.
Sometimes it was one of the supposed "property preservation companies" just like one of the other posts said, they rush in to get the job and bill the lender. Totally unscrupulous!
Sometimes I have had condo associations changing the locks under the same pretext.
I do inspect the properties weekly and when and if they do it, I change the locks right back and the attorney at our title company writes the lender a nice letter explaining how the seller has put the property under my supervision until it sells so they do not have the right to do this. Furthermore, we like to state that their "interference" with the seller's good faith efforts to sell the property may result in losses and damages to the seller that will not be overlooked.
This issue, along with overzealous attorneys supposedly representing associations but really trying to move fast and produce inflated legal fees to foreclose on properties themselves and now some lenders "partnering" with real estate firms to take our listings really has caused me to reach a point where I am willing to dedicate a certain amount on time and resources to collect signatures and go to our District Attorney, State Governor's office and Washington if possible and start working on an expended distressed home owner's bill of rights.
I already have affidavits signed by more than a dozen home sellers describing many of these types of abuses.
I believe that we are living in a time where the vested interests to all of these vultures are so huge that we can and should step in on behalf of the embattled home owners that we represent and get the ear and attention of policy makers and the news media and do whatever we can to at least make it more difficult.
Right now, I see these big bullies like gangs of outlaws riding into towns and doing whatever they want because their victims don't do anything on an individual basis to protect themselves and unfortunately for them, these home owners carry the scarlet letter of shame because they defaulted so they must be bad irresponsible people who do not deserve help.
NO! That is not what this country is about, that is not how things should work here. I stand up to my seller's lenders and stop them, their attorneys and HOA's on their tracks all day long.
Now it is time for a concerted effort by a large group of people and organizations to make these problems more public and put these people on notice that their abuses will not be tolerated.
Maybe all those fees we pay to the NAR and FR and our local associations could be put to good use by requesting that they also help.
Anyone interested in taking this on alongside me to see what we can do is encouraged to contact me.
I've been taking a lot from all of these people for a long time and I'm ready to start bringing it back to them now.
PS: beware of BofA's new strategy to get your seller's disqualified for HAFA short sales, they will pass the file around to subcontractors and look for any way possible to claim that your seller does not qualify for HAFA (took too long to respond, insufficient docs, could not contact the listing agent, missing signatures they actually claimed none of my phone numbers worked or the sellers numbers, etc, etc) They are being extremely nasty and aggressive. Beware and keep good documentation to protect yourself and your seller.
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Permalink Reply by Woody Edwards on
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Carolyn,
You are having a bad time of it. I'm glad to see you reported it. As for the calls coming to the sellers, have them get the fax number or mailing address and then send them the following with their name, address & acct. number:
"Under my rights in the Fair Lending Law and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, I hereby request you stop any and all phone calls to me or any other person. At this time, I do not wish to speak with you, anyone at your company, or anyone representing you concerning this matter. Do not contact me by phone regarding this matter. I demand that you stop calling me at home, on my cell phone, at work, at my relatives house, or any other location. Please make any future communication with me in writing. I am aware of my rights under section 805(b)2 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and am willing and able to exercise them. I am keeping track of all calls from your company and may consider recording calls."
Either fax it and keep the print out or mail it and get a signed receipt back. Your sellers can take the companies to court if they get called back after this and get awarded up to $1,000 per call.
As for you and the banks, if you feel they have violated anything, you can report them to the US Office of the Currency. Banks have 10 days to respond once a complaint has been received, and it usually happens much faster. You can report it online at www.helpwithmybank.gov or you can call them at 800-613-6743.
I have reported the negotiation department of Chase Bank this weekend over their inability to respond since July 1 on an offer I submitted. These banks need to be held responsible for their inactions or their brow-beating tactics, and who to stand up to them but one of the largest groups of professionals in this country?
REALTORS® that's who!!!
Don't hesitate to pass this info along and tell your sellers to keep a log as this works for credit card companies as well.
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Permalink Reply by Christine Loschiavo on
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Wow! This sounds like it is more than unethical, it sounds illegal. The sellers are still the rightful owners of the property and have the right to choose their own agent. I would seek legal advice on this one.
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Permalink Reply by Len McGuirk on
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I felt the need to jump into this great conversation.
I too make my living successfully closing short sales. I have had many homes get "secured" or "re-keyed" by the banks. I have even had most of them already secured and locked, however the banks will still rekey the property. This doesn't make much sense to me if the home is already locked and secured. Either way, when a bank secures one of my listings, I just call them up and request a copy of the keys to be overnighted to my office immediately. It bothers me a lot because I may not even find out if the home has been rekeyed until a nice enough showing agent calls to tell me about it. Then I have to drive across town in some cases just to put the new keys into the lockbox....what a waste of time!
I was also think of the term "tortious interference" when someone mentioned that the bank was trying to persuay the sellers to cancel their listing agreement with their agent. The bank is interfering with someone else's contract and I am pretty sure that is illegal. This would be reported in a second if that were my situation!! I suggest that agent should report the bank to the AG right away as well as the local real estate division.
In regards to phone calls being recorded, it depends on the state you are in AND the state the other person on the line is in. Many states require mutual consent, whether it be the person's state on the receiving end or the caller's end. For example, the caller could be located in California and the receiver could be in Idaho. I believe the most strict state's laws supercedes the other state's laws.
These statements above are only a matter of my opinion and should not be taken as legal advice. Please seek legal counsel for legal advice. Have a nice day.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stradcutter on
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I have a form that I use that I put on the door of my properties. It's kept everyone honest and if they are there to change the locks, they always give me the lockbox code.
Here's the language:
!!NOTICE!!
This property is
NOT
abandoned and is under a real estate listing contract and/or purchase agreement.
Anyone other than the registered owner, licensed real estate agents, appraisers or inspectors
who enter will be charged with breaking and entering
Lender representatives, and assigns:
This property is under ownership and cannot be entered or locks tampered with unless a judge should decree such in a proper jurisdiction hearing.
Contact Your Name at Your Number
Hope this helps.
Joe
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Woody - It sounds good in theory - BUT - it will facilitate a "SHORT SALE DECLINED" from most lenders.
Woody Edwards said:Carolyn,
You are having a bad time of it. I'm glad to see you reported it. As for the calls coming to the sellers, have them get the fax number or mailing address and then send them the following with their name, address & acct. number:
"Under my rights in the Fair Lending Law and the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, I hereby request you stop any and all phone calls to me or any other person. At this time, I do not wish to speak with you, anyone at your company, or anyone representing you concerning this matter. Do not contact me by phone regarding this matter. I demand that you stop calling me at home, on my cell phone, at work, at my relatives house, or any other location. Please make any future communication with me in writing. I am aware of my rights under section 805(b)2 of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and am willing and able to exercise them. I am keeping track of all calls from your company and may consider recording calls."
Either fax it and keep the print out or mail it and get a signed receipt back. Your sellers can take the companies to court if they get called back after this and get awarded up to $1,000 per call.
As for you and the banks, if you feel they have violated anything, you can report them to the US Office of the Currency. Banks have 10 days to respond once a complaint has been received, and it usually happens much faster. You can report it online at www.helpwithmybank.gov or you can call them at 800-613-6743.
I have reported the negotiation department of Chase Bank this weekend over their inability to respond since July 1 on an offer I submitted. These banks need to be held responsible for their inactions or their brow-beating tactics, and who to stand up to them but one of the largest groups of professionals in this country?
REALTORS® that's who!!!
Don't hesitate to pass this info along and tell your sellers to keep a log as this works for credit card companies as well.
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Joe -
This is EXCELLENT - I'm going to post this on all of my short sale listings this week - even the occupied ones !
Thanks !
Thom Colby
Broker
Newport Beach CA
Joe Stradcutter said:I have a form that I use that I put on the door of my properties. It's kept everyone honest and if they are there to change the locks, they always give me the lockbox code.
Here's the language:
!!NOTICE!!
This property is
NOT
abandoned and is under a real estate listing contract and/or purchase agreement.
Anyone other than the registered owner, licensed real estate agents, appraisers or inspectors
who enter will be charged with breaking and entering
Lender representatives, and assigns:
This property is under ownership and cannot be entered or locks tampered with unless a judge should decree such in a proper jurisdiction hearing.
Contact Your Name at Your Number
Hope this helps.
Joe
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Permalink Reply by Victoria Frieberg on
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Love that one Joe! I tagged one of mine with flourescent signage..but not worded half as well as yours!
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