Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by judith traynor on January 23, 2013 at 4:38pm

Kelli

I had a similar experience and I hired an agent that specializes in BPO's. That is all she does. They took her BPO and accepted our offer.

Judith

Permalink Reply by Kelli Crockett on January 24, 2013 at 10:23am

What do you mean by you "hired" a BPO Agent? To do what? She went and did a separate BPO?

Permalink Reply by Jim McCormack on January 24, 2013 at 2:47am

Is this a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac owned loan?  If so, you are probably not going to have much luck with a valuation dispute regardless of who does it.  I have submitted full certified appraisals to banks and they still have demanded 20-90% more than the appraised values.  Please see the numerous discussions regarding valuation problems with Fannie and Freddie short sales.  Your best bet is to find out when the BPO expires and then re-submit the short sale around that time so that a new BPO is ordered.

Permalink Reply by Kelli Crockett on January 24, 2013 at 10:26am

Wells Fargo is the Investor. I've not had the problems I see everyone discussing about Fannie Mae. Our problem are BPO Agents who aren't doing any research and splitting the difference between 2 recent sales. And Wells Fargo used their own "in house" BPO Agents. Just wondering if anyone knows what recourse I have at this point. The Sellers are hiring a lawyer.

Permalink Reply by Jeff Payne on January 24, 2013 at 1:44pm

Kelli, are you sure that Wells is not the servicer?  How did you find out Wells is the investor?  On the surface, it is hard to see why a $400000 offer would be accepted.  One sale was $600K Minus the furniture ($100,000 of furniture probably worth 20K used) makes that comp $500K and the other sale at $500K.  What am I missing, why would Wells Fargo agree to sell it for 400K before expenses of another 40K.  NET $340,000 on a condo that could be worth 500K?  

Did the BPO agent do an interior or drive by BPO?  

Permalink Reply by Kelli Crockett on January 24, 2013 at 6:23pm

As I stated, the $500k and $600k units have unobstructed views of the Gulf. The unit in question looks at a building. Big difference.

It's easy to find out who the Investor is. Just have your Seller put the question in writing to the Negotiator. Also, if they are Fannie or Freddie, that is information that is available to anyone if you have the property owner's consent.

Permalink Reply by Jim McCormack on January 24, 2013 at 6:28pm

Regarding the investor, most banks require that the seller send a fax to a Research Department or similar to obtain the investor.  I have never had a negotiator request that to be sent to them.  The online Fannie and Freddie loan lookups are not always accurate.  I have had several properties not show up in their database, but foreclosure documents that were sent to the seller clearly indicated that Fannie or Freddie owned their loan.  I have never had it go the other way around so it is most likely a false negative problem than a false positive problem.  I would recommend absolutely verifying the investor because it makes a huge difference on what options you have.  If Wells Fargo does indeed own the loan then have the seller file a complaint at the OCC. See http://www.endingforeclosures.com/bank-and-mortgage-company-help-an....

Permalink Reply by Kelli Crockett on January 25, 2013 at 1:22pm

WF does own it, but as someone else mentioned, there are several different branches, so we will have to verify. I will suggest the OCC complaint to them and their attorney and we will do that, too. Thank you for your help.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on January 24, 2013 at 11:25am

I'm guessing that anything you've said to the negotiator is just noise - just complaints. You need substance. If I had to use comps where you have so few, I would use their comps, note the $100K furniture, claim the obstructed view costs $500K - $365K and use the old comp as proof of the value differential. In other words, pull out everything that they did wrong and show why it is wrong - and what their number should be. To do this, you need to clearly ask for the rules or form for a value dispute. That is a clear request and demands a clear answer. You can't just say, "you're wrong" and expect them to do anything but go on a coffee break.

Since I am not comfortable with lousy comps (or really most comps) myself, I would look at paying for the buyer's bank appraisal (to be refunded upon closing). Banks trust banks, they hate people - it will carry weight. Next best is to hire an appraiser, make sure he is used by banks (a good reputation with WF) and submit that.

Permalink Reply by Kelli Crockett on January 24, 2013 at 6:29pm

I was thinking about hiring an appraiser. That may be our only option, but I don't want to waste the Seller's money if I can't get anyone from WF to look at the numbers. What I have submitted hasn't been noise at all. As I stated above, I sent them detailed explanations and even provided layouts of the building. I had a letter written by the top selling Agent for the entire complex wherein she explained that they would love to sell the unit for more, but it's just not worth it. 

I just don't know how to get someone at WF to listen. I can't get around our Negotiator and she is probably the worst Negotiator I've ever dealt with.

The lawyer is gearing them up for foreclosure defense. That's sad. Unfortunately, the flip side of WF insisting that the unit is worth $550k is that when it sells as a foreclosure for $300k, the Sellers can fight the deficiency. "But I thought you said it was worth $550k...." Lol.

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on January 25, 2013 at 2:18am

Regarding the investor, you can often find the investor by looking up the servicer on MERS (https://www.mers-servicerid.org/sis/), then going the next step of asking for the investor. That's if the loan is in MERS. WF as investor, I learned a few years ago that there are several different WF investor departments and they have different guidelines, so even if you find that WF is, indeed, the investor, that doesn't tell you which guidelines are in place.

WF (investor) could be playing the same game that FNMA is - jacking up the value to an expected future value and won't give an inch but rather foreclose. In that case, reality won't help - you need clout. Complain to the OCC, etc., although I'd seen on one of these forums that the banks have turned that into their lapdog. That leaves the more painful paths of going to a state senator or state attorney general to complain and getting TV news to do a story on it - apply political/public pressure.

Since you didn't want to go the route of pre-paying for the buyer's bank's approval, I'm guessing for the same reasons, this hail-mary approach won't work. Get the buyer to meet the bank's price and when the buyer's bank appraises it for the real value, submit that. I've used that to get past bad negotiators and into a phase where the bank wants to close and is more cooperative.

Did you specifically ask for a value dispute form? This is where you need to make clear direct requests which they cannot justify ignoring to get things moving at least an inch at a time. (If they refuse, that gives you more fuel for a senator, etc. - WF refuses to entertain that they may have a bad value...) If you have the form, then you get to the next stage where they need to deny it and explain why - probably more fuel. This is a lot different from saying my buddy who sells condos says your price is too high (probably how they see anything not engraved in stone).

Remember, this is a bank - the more officious the better. These statements of condo's sold, did you get a history from your salesman? Official track of sales with notes of differences, etc.? How about getting it and his statements notarized?

And stay on their backs - for every reason you can have, give a call in to the short sale line to ask, too. This gets it in their notes.

from my notes: WF Office of Executive Complaints for HomeEq  866-828-9436

WF escalations - escalate to (877) 841-5301

I just learned this: WF executive complaint fax 866-278-1179

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from someone's post: If you have an investor loan you need help with Paul is at 803-396-7658 and works 7-3:30 EDT Here is the WF executive offices number: 800-853-8516

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I have not used any of these myself - yet.

Don't reference me on this (from soneone's post but I've used it) - Diane Fox - 414-214-9487/fax: 866-968-0913.

Keep us up to date. Good luck - we all need that when dealing with these banks.

Permalink Reply by Kelli Crockett on January 25, 2013 at 1:23pm

This is great info. Thank you very much. I will let you know what we decide to do and how it goes. Hopefully we will be able to provide valuable info to help others.