Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on October 4, 2010 at 5:30pm

Yeah, both things - do it all the time - that doesn't mean it is easy. I've mentioned this a few times elsewhere - hmm. maybe I should put it somewhere and just point to it?

In the last few months, BofA people have been pushed to steal as much as they can from any SS deal. This has surfaced as high sales price, but that is more normal, and cash and notes from the seller. They often claim it is the MI but won't say who that is (which is a violation of truth in lending, but BofA does quite a few illegal things). They have built up MI as this scary monster that tromps around demanding things from the bank and the investor - nice image - easy to believe you can't fight them. So, it could be an MI, much more frequently, the negotiator is flat out lying to you. You can find out about the MI elsewhere, but it sometimes is not so easy and I found them intelligent when I have talked with them - to fix BofA's issues...

I also find sellers do a crappy job of writting up their financials and sometimes the hardship letter. Both are important. Go over them and get them corrected. I frequently see it say that they have $2K/mo extra every month or -$2K/mo. The first makes the bank lick its lips - there is money, they owe money, give me, give me. The second makes them think something is hidden (how can you have $2K going out with nothing to cover it every month - a scam is going on here). They also look at the bank statements, large sums of money going in and out w/o a good explanation? They also look at the credit report (hmm.. this guy just bought a car but he's not paying us? or he's paying everyone else off but the mortgage - seems to be not in bad shape, just trying to rip us off).
So, look over those things, then ask the negotiator (assuming you don't agree with him) how he figures your seller has cash. He has to tell you, right? He can't say "just 'cause". So, now you know what to look at closer.

If necessary because he says it is MI, push that to the limit and get the MI contact. Very good chance it is a lie and he will fight to not tell you. That is criminal to not tell the seller who is demanding money from him - yes, you can take names and turn them over to the D.A. - I have a little more detail elsewhere. I believe they mainly won't tell you because its a lie - they are gouging and negotiating in bad faith (another banking violation).

So, check the financial facts (and, as I said, they really do read the hardship and I've had a closing officer tell me that they didn't have much of a hardship. I had one say his girlfriend left. Yeah? Well, actually, that was his ex-wife who couldn't sign for the house because her credit was bad and she was bringing in $80K/yr and when she left, she dropped a $30K debt on him, too. So, which might not be able to now pay, the guy whose kitty kat ran away or the guy who got socked with debt and $80K/yr walked out? Yes, they often actually read these.

The second part? Getting them to call is a bear for the lousy ones. Good ones will call - and that is very infrequent because there are so few of them.. You need to send equator mail, then do it including team lead and manager. They higher-up's have proven totally worthless to me - I've included them days later after including the others but never saw a finger lifted by any of them - my conclusion is that they got to that level by knowing how to hide from responsibility at BofA not by being responsible for fixing underling's mistakes.

Also, talk with the rep. After a couple of calls, ask them to escalate or do something to get the negotiator, team lead or manager to call you. Reps can make things happen that you cannot at times.

Then there are outside the lines approaches. John Ciresi takes bad situations and hands them to able negotiators, etc. to check out your problem. I've had really decent success with him.

Then there is the office of the president. I've never used that, but others have. Both are mentioned around here so you can get the contact info.

In your calls, you may need to wake up the rep, same with later emails. The lack of communication indicates that BofA is purposely putting this seller into foreclosure and a bad rest of his life. "negotiating in bad faith" - well, not even up to that level of bad negotiating because you are getting no response. "You have to watch out for your client so will be calling the investor to discuss the situation in 2 days if you don't get someone of authority calling you to discuss xyz."

Yes, you have to point out things - bad faith negotiating, stalling - purposely destroying the seller, violations of truth in lending - that really is criminal and jail time is possible.

The lower levels don't know what you are talking about, as you get higher, they do know that you mean it and that it can happen and they will discuss your issues.

These are not "see what you are doing to the poor seller and me and don't you feel bad?" No, they are bankers, they don't feel bad - they like to go home and roll around in money every night - money that they whined and got politicians to give them for......absolutely nothing-no good..

No, these are items which effect THEM - THEY could go to jail THEY are violating banking laws. So, you have to think of what they worry about and it sure isn't what damage they've done to the world economy (while making record earnings), nope, hit where it hurts - that gets the escalation to a real conversation.

Sometimes, I have kicked out the short sale and restarted it if the buyer will hang in for another 2 months - stonewalling from negotiator and team lead and no response from the manager. It has seemed like the fastest and best way to get the short sale done. I'm not sure, maybe I should blow the day on the one file escalating and badgering to get a different team over there - but that isn't cost effective for me.....but I'll think about it next time.

Hopefully, that gave you something to think about..

Permalink Reply by Paul Francis - Vegas Short Sales on October 4, 2010 at 5:45pm

So... B of A is taking a loss of of over $223K?

Are they waiving any future deficiency judgment rights for the $15K bribe? (I do not know what state you are in / your state laws concerning the deficiency judgment rights.)

Without the above information, tough to give you any suggestions... Sounds like they are asking for a cash contribution of 5% of the loss to let your sellers move on but I don't know the total closing costs, etc...

However.. if they are what I think they are and B of A is taking around a $300K loss it sounds like the typical give us a 5% cash contribution of the loss to move on scenario which is common.... especially if your seller has a job.

Do your sellers have enough time to play hardball?

Tough to say without all of the details but if it is what I think it is... it's going to be tough to get around it.

Permalink Reply by Alisa Martin Pepper on October 4, 2010 at 7:16pm

Joe,
Thanks for the detail and your time. My seller has 2 hardships (divorce and job loss), an excellent letter and thorough financials that show they are in deep. I always review everything with my sellers before submitting. I have no idea why they are asking for the cash contribution, I have emailed asking a few times, but no responses.

Paul,
Yes 220K + closing costs. Of the 12 short sales I have completed, I have never had any 1sts ask for cash contributions. The 2nds always ask. My seller has no real concern about deficiency after speaking with attorney.




I'll call the general line and push on to escalate, etc from there. Equator seems so ridiculous in that it is some person filling in the blanks about a file they probably know nothing about. I much prefer having a relationship with my negotiators, but you just can't get these people behind Equator to understand the deal.

Ahhhh...gotta love a challenge!

Good luck with your files. =)

Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on October 7, 2010 at 2:20pm

I have found it tougher than in past months to get them to call/touch base. However, you might find that they could be a little more responsive now that they are semi-reeling from BofA foreclosures being shut down in 23 states. It has had a negative effect on the simple things taking a long time, but I suspect it could make the negotiators a little more sensitive.

I escalate - I email the negotiator, give it a day, maybe again, depending upon the need, then include the team lead, then the next day the manager then the next day everyone - vp's and all. The vp's are useless wallpaper, but it shows that I was reasonable and didn't just go crazy emailing everyone.

After one or two the negotiator, mention the problem to a rep - they should voluntarily send a message, and if there delays, an escalation. I have also found that a combination of my email and theirs at the same time has an effect.

If this is still going on, throw in "bad faith negotiation", "putting the seller in jeopardy of a destroyed future", etc. These have more weight than losing a short sale. You are pinning directly on them the responsibility for not doing their job to a legal detriment of your client. Just start pulling out the stops.

If you nothing from several emails, depending upon your situation, you can tweak the negotiator - include him when you email the manager and team lead to get you a negotiator who can respond (or whatever level of wording you like).

There is an important question here: You have information that says they are full of it. You demand, before they possibly end up in court explaining their position, that you hear what information they have which says your client has money or a flowing income, etc. You can harp on that, easily. How do you say this? Why won't you respond? The financial form shows negative cash flow, the bank account show little cash flow/is negative. Are you actually trying to say that these mean to you that the seller is rich or something? (And on and on - tweak it from each angle - bad info on BofA credit report - why won't you tell me, isn't it true???)

[Oh, I also throw in that I could have missed something, I definitely don't like it when a client lies to me -- etc. (OK, if I don't like it when a client lies, does he get the hint that I am not thrilled when a negotiator lies to me if I hit the ceiling when my own client lies????)]

You have to keep in mind, you have a responsibility to your client, too. If you don't beat the hell out of unresponsive BofA people for lack of important response, you are also letting down your client. [Am I beating you up? Not really, I'm making it real easy for you to see that not only should you avoid being sheepish about blasting with both barrels, it is your DUTY, you have a responsibility and I have mentioned that to them myself. Keeping this in mind helps you/me to push when we feel pushy. No, you can't back down, this seller can have a ruined life if you let BofA knuckle-dragging boneheads delay until the buyer walks or the sheriff sale comes along, etc.]

Yep, BOTH barrels! ;-)


Alisa Martin Pepper said:

Joe,
Thanks for the detail and your time. My seller has 2 hardships (divorce and job loss), an excellent letter and thorough financials that show they are in deep. I always review everything with my sellers before submitting. I have no idea why they are asking for the cash contribution, I have emailed asking a few times, but no responses.

Paul,
Yes 220K + closing costs. Of the 12 short sales I have completed, I have never had any 1sts ask for cash contributions. The 2nds always ask. My seller has no real concern about deficiency after speaking with attorney.




I'll call the general line and push on to escalate, etc from there. Equator seems so ridiculous in that it is some person filling in the blanks about a file they probably know nothing about. I much prefer having a relationship with my negotiators, but you just can't get these people behind Equator to understand the deal.

Ahhhh...gotta love a challenge!

Good luck with your files. =)