PNC Average Acceptance Amount when in 2nd Position

I have been tracking PNC's behavior when in 2nd position on short sales and based on the postings and my experience they are awful to work with. I am trying to structure an appropriate offer. Here are the financial results of what I have found:

  • 23% of the original loan amount is the average amount accepted (22% is the median amount accepted)
  • 24% of the original loan amount is the average amount accepted without a deficiency judgment (21% is the median amount accepted without a deficiency judgment)
  • The lowest amount accepted was 5% and had a deficiency judgment attached to it
  • The lowest amount accepted without a deficiency judgment was 22%

If anyone has additional data points that weren't previously posted that would be helpful. I would need the following:

  • Original amount of the 2nd PNC loan
  • PNC accepted amount
  • Whether there was a deficiency letter signed
  • Also any advice on negotiating with them would be much appreciated

I will gladly continue to crunch the numbers and will post updates.

 

Thanks!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Linda Susan Fox on October 2, 2011 at 6:36pm

I had a successful short sale where BofA on the first gave $3000 and PNC on the second wanted $3300.00 to release and and additional $15000 to forgive.  The seller had to be current or they would sell the loan off to a collection agency and the debt owed was $35,000.  They were tough to deal with but the buyer paid the additional $15,300.

Permalink Reply by Becky Martin on October 3, 2011 at 1:12pm

I agree, they are hard to deal with, always want a lot of $ to release deficiency....

Original amt. $31,200

accepted 10% or $3,120 for release of lien, no waiver of deficiency...

 

Permalink Reply by Rebecca Williams on October 28, 2011 at 7:37pm

Linda,

 

What was the original loan amount on the second?

Permalink Reply by MSI on October 3, 2011 at 5:53pm

Chase gave PNC $3000 and 5% to brokers on HUD. Additionally, buyer gave PNC 10% of outstanding 2nd - about $30,000 and brokers another $20,000 (2.5%). All listed on HUD. Chase took a loss of over $1,000,000 on first. Buyer was happy to pay them all to get the house below market!

 

Makes any sense? It is real!

Permalink Reply by Becky Martin on October 4, 2011 at 2:37am
wow, wish that had been my listing lol:)  Great job working all that out!
Permalink Reply by Kimberley Kelly on October 31, 2011 at 2:59am

How did you collect 2 commissions?  Not clear on this?

Permalink Reply by Rebecca Williams on October 28, 2011 at 7:45pm

The data results in 20% of the original loan amount is the average amount accepted (20% is the median amount accepted)

Permalink Reply by SE Davis on October 30, 2011 at 2:25am

Comprehend the premise template when working with PNC Bank on second liens.

My most recent experience with PNC is that they will violate state and federal laws with reckless abandon. FDCPA, RESPA, UCC1 and FTC Guidelines for REMICs.

1st Lien Short Sale Approvals via Fannie or Freddie as investors will RESTRICT any and all disbursements to any second lien holder. Use this as a tool when requesting PNC Bank short sale approval. Give them 30 days then escalate. Have your borrower file both state and federal written complaint to the appropriate regulatory authorities.

PNC Bank has agreements and contracts with both Fannie and Freddie. Their outrageous demands for second liens technically violate those first lien lending agreements with the PSA's.

It is my understanding that PNC Bank currently has over 10,000 civil lawsuits filed against them according to their most recent 10K SEC filing report.

It is my opinion that PNC Bank is blatantly violating their contracts with the PSA's for first liens when they make unreasonable out of the box demands for settlements of second liens. Exploit it.

 

Permalink Reply by Kimberley Kelly on October 31, 2011 at 3:01am

Wow!  I knew PNC was AWFUL, but I did not know they were illegal too..hmmm..

Permalink Reply by Patricia Beck on October 30, 2011 at 5:43pm

I recently dealt with them being in 1st position and they were very difficult to work with, especially via email...always call the negotiator.  Disputing the BPO was also a pain with them.  Good luck!

Permalink Reply by Kim Christensen on April 30, 2013 at 8:59am

Hi there,

Since this was an older post, I was wondering if this is still an average settlement for a PNC (2nd) for 20% for full lien release and deficiency waiver. This is a short sale and the first is Nationstar whom says we can’t add these additional figures to the HUD, and they are only offering 3,000 which is only 1% of the 2nd PNC balance. Why would they care, if the sellers are documenting this on their side of HUD. I mean really? Love to get a response to the PNC question. Thanks!

Permalink Reply by SE Davis on April 30, 2013 at 9:47am

Kim;

I've got several different client experiences with PNC Bank in the last 6 months.

They have improved a great deal since when this post thread was first created.

I believe their decisions are more dependent on reasonable factors now than averages, like if this is a HAFA 1st mortgage approval, who their investor is, was it discharged in a BK, is it currently categorized as a charge-off etc.

Submit it and see what they come back with is my advice.

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