Can't get PNC to Budge on 2nd Lien Payoff!
I have a short sale with BofA as the 1st and PNC as the 2nd. PNC wants $15,000. BofA will only give them 8%. I got the buyer to kick in some more and both myself and the other agent are kicking in some commission. We are offering them about 50% of what they want but they are telling me they will cancel the file, that is their bottom line. There is no more money to throw at this and the buyer's already overbid on the property. Any advice?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Juan C Camelo on
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Ron,
I can see how many happy customers you must have... Who cares if they come out loosing, right.
Your Professional and Business Ethics is questionable...
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Payne on
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Ron, what would the benefit be to the bank to let it go to foreclosure? What does PNC stand to gain by not approving the short sale
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Thanks, that makes some sense :)
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How often, assuming there are statistics, does the second actually get anything in terms of a recovery from the borrower? Does anyone study this and say "we will take our chances because ____% of the time we recover more in a foreclosure with a deficiency as opposed to short sale"
Seems like in this particular case they want 15,000 and wont settle for 7500 which makes me wonder how much it would cost PNC to recover 15000 after a foreclosure?
Ron, thanks for giving us insight on the other side
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Permalink Reply by Kevin - Greenville, SC on
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I found this to be quite interesting. This breaks down to about $13,500 per suit filed.
However, a recent report from the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which has managed Fannie and Freddie since the companies were bailed out by taxpayers, found that those 35,000 lawsuits have only thus far brought in $4.7 million.
http://consumerist.com/2013/06/18/losing-your-house-to-foreclosure-...
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You Can't really blame them for playing hardball. So write them a letter backing it up with hard ball facts. First you have an exclusive contract to sell that property. tell them you are going withdraw it, take the property off of the market, attach to the letter a notice for buyer to perform, to come up with what the 2nd lien holder wants or Cancel the Purchase agreement contract. Make sure PNC knows you own the rights to sell the property and a withdrawn listing means the seller can't list the property with any other agent. without being liable for your Payday. no othe offers are going to be entertained until they agree to the terms. Include a copy of the BofA NOD. Carbon Copy B of A
Take Control that your Listing Contract gives you!! Because of the wimpy past negotiation skills demonstrated by RE Agents their going to flex their muscles until you and we push back. Also is the hardship of the seller a true hardship, and has it been conveyed properly? If that doesn't work, Do as Ron suggest let it go to foreclosure, Seller can get Cash For keys from B of A The hardest thing for an agent to do is walk away I do not do that very well. I like playing hardball better. that way if you do lose, at least you gave it your All!
An over incumberd home is a hardship for 90% of sellers. to pay some lender $100K over the next ten years with no equity increase is taking $100K ++ from a sellers retirment account.
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Allan, Ron S.
You guys call yourselves real estate professionals? Guys like y'all give Professional Real Estate Agents a bad name, all you think of is your commissions.
As a professional you need to be diligent to the buyers and sellers, not your pockets.
Cash for keys? What about the sellers debt? do you think that disappears, do you know the financial liability that is created for that seller when the property is FC'd on? Not to say, the possible liability for Kelly if the seller goes to an attorney after the property is FC'd?
First and foremost, Kelly has the listing, as well as a contractual duty so she needs to do everything to possible to assist that seller sell that property and eliminate that debt.
2. A second agent has the buyer so in the event the property goes to FC then Kelly will be out of a hard earned, long awaited commission.
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Juan consider this your first and only warning. If you continue you will be removed from this site.
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Kelly,
First of all, do not let yourself be discouraged by some of the narrow minded replies you have received.
To begin there are not enough facts to give you a proper solution.
Is the property owner occupied or an investment?
If owner occupied, does the owner qualify for HAFA?
I ask about HAFA because there are strict guidelines for second lien holders. Some of the second lien holders act stupid about the guidelines and want to see how knowledgeable you are as to short sales and second lien requirements.
Do you have a real estate attorney that works with you on your short sales?
I had a second that was flexing that muscle between their ears asking for $18,000.00 and then had to eat his words once my team attorney read him the guideline that applied in this case and they accepted $6,000.00.
Kelly, about giving up your commission that needs to be the ultimately the last recourse. We work too much to give up a penny.
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Hi Juan
This is an investment property. It is not HAFA. Both my buyer and seller are getting frustrated and mad and nobody will budge. The seller has tried to work with these banks doing loan mods and he was put through the wringer with no solution in the end. He feels like he is trying to do the right thing by doing a short sale instead of foreclosing but the longer this goes on the more the sellers get to the point where they are ready to give up. I've been down this road before and the 2nd usually gives up eventually, their alternative is to get nothing. I have a hard time taking the side of the banks when they were the ones giving out these loans in the first place.
Thanks for your response everyone.
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Permalink Reply by joe beauchamp on
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The screw everybody who worked on getting this done and let the buyer get it at foreclosure sale (while the servicer bank makes more money doing this than cooperating for a short sale - from the investor, btw) answer is from a banker. This forum is not restricted to people wanting to help get short sales done or fix the real estate economy. BTW, I've run into the same attitude from BK atty's - they take no interest in time or effort to get a property released so that the agents and buyer can move on with the sale - I assume because the atty has been paid, what's he care? I've had the same answer from them - screw you and the agents and this buyer, the BK is being done and the bank can just foreclose w/o the seller caring..
Also, often for better than worse, these forums are read by at least WF and BofA personnel - many times someone from the bank will reach out to straighten out a problem. (some banker eyes are actually here to help)
So, keep your eyes open when getting a reply - not necessarily with the best and honest intentions and certainly not private.
Oh, here's one, how about like South Dakota (I think), we make the banks state entities and none of this derivative hocus pocus - oh bail us out, and we are too big to prosecute (like money laundering HSBC) would exist. Banks would be trustworthy institutions that the "little people" could trust rather than be swindled then taxed to bail out. But that would be crazy, right? Then banking would be stable like in that state and in Canada. We wouldn't want honesty in banking, where is the "game" in that? OK, I hit a limit - sorry. Just that when people give glib "screw you" responses, after a while, I, uh, say what I think.
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Update on this situation. PNC still not budging, I'm waiting for my approval letter from the 1st BofA (the 3rd party negotiator from LRC has submitted it 3 times to the investor due to his errors). Hoping that will help sway PNC once I can show an approval with a close date. Had my client call today to get the investors information, PNC would not give him that and stated he was not allowed to contact the investor. My client asked for that in writing and was told they wouldn't do that.
I am very frustrated, today I got an email from PNC stating since the investor made his final offer of $15,000 when I submitted my first offer, they were sticking to that and gave me til the 17th to get this amount or he would close the file. I had submitted $2345 (contribution from buyer and both agents) on top of my first offer and my negotiator won't send that to the investor. He just said that was the final offer, not even negotiating.
Does anyone have a number for PNC Executive Office? 800-524-9995 was not working nor was the email I had. I've sent a twitter msg. but I need someone to budge on this. Thanks!
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